1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Welsh
  4. >
  5. "Dych chi eisiau mynd i'r daf…

"Dych chi eisiau mynd i'r dafarn?"

Translation:Do you want to go to the pub?

March 18, 2016

19 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rivereka

Ah, this is the first place with the modified consonant. As a beginner, this would be a great thing to have explained. I think I get it, but I have seen it in other languages, so it's not a completely new concept for me. Nonetheless, I would love to understand this better.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rivereka

I think the issue is more that the mutation showed up in this sentence several lessons before mutations are introduced otherwise. I remember the mutations from Scots Gaelic, so the concept itself is familiar and natural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/obado

I think a strength of Duolingo is teaching the pattern, and those who are interested can delve deeper into the grammar but not everyone wants to do this. Hope it all becomes clear, and I'm happy to answer any questions you have about it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RozieToez

Yeah, please teach the initial mutations before you start expecting us to know them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/obado

I don't know - I think you can learn by pattern, and learning them all in isolation before you start sentences is a lot to take on. Tafarn / y dafarn - easy peasy! I've been learning Polish and every time I look at the rules I want to cry. For me, it's better to get on with learning some sentences, and that's the approach I would recommend


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CivisRomanus

The way this sentence is pronounced by the recorded voice sounds to me as affirmative ('you want to go to the pub'), because at the end the voice pitch goes down instead of rising.
Since ydich  is not used, it is really difficult to guess that this is a question!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shwmae

Yep, the TTS is wrong here (again!). In spoken Welsh pitch is often the way we distinguish between statements and questions so it really should be right!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rmcode
Mod
Plus
  • 2443

The problem is that the TTS algorithm only uses question intonantion when it encounters a formal question form at the beginning of the sentence.

Check the difference between:-

'Ydych chi eisiau mynd i'r dafarn?'

and 'Dych chi eisiau mynd i'r dafarn?'

at http://www.readspeaker.com/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shwmae

Interesting. I thought it might recognise a question mark at the end and change the intonation accordingly, like Google Translate does.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/obado

True, though if it was a statement it would be "rydych chi". NB "ydych" not "ydich"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CivisRomanus

My appreciation to all for confirming that my impression was right.
And yes, I misspelt ydych, thanks for pointing it out!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/deVignolles

So, "pub" in Welsh is feminine? Because soft mutation after the article happens only if subject is feminine, according to Wiki.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Well, tafarn in Welsh is feminine :)

An English word can have multiple words in Welsh, either as general synonyms (like "little/small" in English) or depending on the area/dialect, and they may not all have the same gender (for example, "key" can be allwedd, feminine, or agoriad, masculine, among other possibilities).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/deVignolles

Thanks a lot! Besides, what Welsh dialect is more similar to the old book Welsh?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rmcode
Mod
Plus
  • 2443

This course follows the patterns used in teaching spoken Welsh to adults. Many of the patterns are contracted from those used in the old course books for written Welsh. All the spoken dialects are different from the patterns used in course books for written Welsh.

These differences are explained in many of the notes of this course. The notes are available in the web and android versions of the course. If you're using iOS then the notes are accessible using a browser app.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/obado

I would also say it is not too hard to transfer from Duolingo Welsh to any dialect you might encounter, as long as you are prepared to change the odd usage here and there. Just learn, listen, adapt, learn!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shwmae

Fyi, out of interest, in some parts of the south tafarn is masculine: mynd i'r tafarn and all that.

Learn Welsh in just 5 minutes a day. For free.