"Tynged yr Iaith"

Translation:The Fate of the Language

March 18, 2016

14 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
  • 18
  • 18
  • 17
  • 17
  • 16
  • 16
  • 15
  • 15
  • 15
  • 13
  • 13
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 10
  • 10
  • 9
  • 9
  • 8
  • 8
  • 7
  • 7
  • 4
  • 1352

Shouldn't this have two THEs in English?

March 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
  • 20
  • 17
  • 16
  • 14
  • 14
  • 14
  • 13
  • 11
  • 10
  • 10
  • 9
  • 8
  • 8
  • 7
  • 6
  • 6
  • 4
  • 4
  • 4
  • 3
  • 2

Yes, I'd say so -- this Celtic construction reminds me of Semitic construct state where, I believe, the first word is always definite.

So "tynged iaith" would be "the fate of a language" and "tynged yr iaith", "the fate of the language", and neither can be "a fate of ..." because that would have to be expressed by some other means than this possessive construction.

March 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
  • 18
  • 18
  • 17
  • 17
  • 16
  • 16
  • 15
  • 15
  • 15
  • 13
  • 13
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 10
  • 10
  • 9
  • 9
  • 8
  • 8
  • 7
  • 7
  • 4
  • 1352

Thanks. That actually clears up several languages for me.

March 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/ibisc
Mod
  • 16
  • 8
  • 3

That would be the usual translation of this pattern, yes - "the Fate of the Language". Genitive patterns in Welsh can be a bit of a challenge sometimes, particularly as to when to use an additional 'the' in the English or not and when Welsh requires an y, etc or not. There are rules, but they are a bit complicated for the Duo approach.

March 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/EllisVaughan
  • 12
  • 10
  • 7
  • 7
  • 6
  • 6
  • 4
  • 3

Maybe since "Fate of the language" feels a tad stunted, but if it is a direct translation then since there is no "Y" before "Tynged" then there wouldn't need to be one.

March 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
  • 18
  • 18
  • 17
  • 17
  • 16
  • 16
  • 15
  • 15
  • 15
  • 13
  • 13
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 10
  • 10
  • 9
  • 9
  • 8
  • 8
  • 7
  • 7
  • 4
  • 1352

So, does this structure just mean that either or both words would be define in English? I don't think I ever figured this out in Irish either (or Arabic or Hebrew).

March 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/EllisVaughan
  • 12
  • 10
  • 7
  • 7
  • 6
  • 6
  • 4
  • 3

I don't know sorry, "Tynged yr iaith" feels fine in Welsh but, "Fate of the language" feels as though it should have a "the" at the start.

March 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Goren17
  • 19
  • 17
  • 15
  • 15
  • 12
  • 11
  • 10
  • 7
  • 5
  • 35

Is it like a proper name so that we have to translate it one definite way?

February 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ibisc
Mod
  • 16
  • 8
  • 3

This was the title of a well-known radio broadcast by Saunders Lewis. The usual translation is 'The Fate of the Language'. It is also acceptable as the 'The Language's Fate', even if that doesn't really strike the right note in English.

February 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Maria897559
  • 25
  • 16
  • 4
  • 3
  • 2
  • 618

Both must be OK I think. Isn't it a matter of tone? Without the THE the word Fate is emphasized. Maybe that's why Miller called his play 'Death of a Salesman' not 'The Death of a Salesman', which is also grammatically correct. Ddiddorol, diolch!

June 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ibisc
Mod
  • 16
  • 8
  • 3

The Welsh pattern xxx yr zzz is translated into English as 'the xxx of the zzz', or, if it sounds less awkward, "the zzz's yyy".

xxx zzz translates as '(an) xxx of a zzz' (or "a zzz's xxx").

  • Tynged yr Iaith - The Fate of the Language (but not *Fate of the Language)
  • Angau y Gwerthwr - The Death of the Salesman
  • Angau Gwerthwr - Death of a Salesman
June 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
  • 18
  • 18
  • 17
  • 17
  • 16
  • 16
  • 15
  • 15
  • 15
  • 13
  • 13
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 10
  • 10
  • 9
  • 9
  • 8
  • 8
  • 7
  • 7
  • 4
  • 1352

So, is there no way to discuss the fate of a language?

June 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ibisc
Mod
  • 16
  • 8
  • 3

Yes, there is a different pattern using o:

  • y tynged o iaith - the fate of a language
June 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
  • 18
  • 18
  • 17
  • 17
  • 16
  • 16
  • 15
  • 15
  • 15
  • 13
  • 13
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 10
  • 10
  • 9
  • 9
  • 8
  • 8
  • 7
  • 7
  • 4
  • 1352

I'm sure I've asked that before. Thank you for your patience.

June 6, 2018
Learn Welsh in just 5 minutes a day. For free.