86 Comments
Wir wissen, was Wissenschaft schafft ist Wissen, das wiederum Wissenschaft schaft, damit Wissen Wissenschaft schafft
we feel excited when we encounter a moment in which somebody is thinking the same way as we do. here you were : )
Other example of great sentence of that kind : "Eifersucht ist eine Leidenschaft, Die mit Eifer sucht was Leiden schafft." -Franz Grillparzer. "Jealousy is a passion, which with eagerness searches for what suffering creates" (sorry for the poor translation)
I would say that "schaffen" is more like "create" while "bilden" is more like "form".
Also, the result of "bilden" usually consists of the subject (die elf Spieler bilden eine Mannschaft = the eleven players together are a team; or: the eleven players create a team consisting of themselves).
"Die elf Spieler schaffen eine Mannschaft" would imply to me that they work together to create a team which consists of other people -- they are only the ones who made the team but they are not on the team.
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Looking this up reveals it's actually related to the English word "shape."
Furkan, I am not a native German speaker,however I believe that the difference is based on creating and building as this relates to science, I may use the analogy between science and engineering Scientist discover (create) engineers build (put it together) Hope this helps
Many in this discussion area suggest that the "-schafft" of Wissenschafft should be thought of as "create" or "make" instead of the "brings" translation suggested by Duolingo. This may stem from a misguided view of what science actually is. It seems very strange to me to suggest that science (or scientists) create or make knowledge. Duolingo's translation makes a lot more sense to me since science "brings forth" knowledge, in the sense of discovering what was always there (removing that which covered our ignorance). To suggest that science "creates" knowledge reminds me of the arrogant scientist, thinking he can create man just as God did in the beginning, bending down for a handful of dust. Yet, as he does, God interrupts saying: "Wait, use your own dust"
@tmRhema: I get your point about the arrogance of science.
"produces" or "establishes" are better choices than "brings" as translations for "schafft" here?
Your alternate suggestions: "Science produces knowledge" or "Science establishes knowledge" do not make as much sense to me as the DuoLingo translation "Science brings knowledge" since they both seem to imply that a scientist is doing something more than merely uncovering what was already there. As I said above, I'm thinking of "bring" here in the sense of "brings forth". Also, I'm speaking from the point of view of what science is (for which I have at least some basis), and not from the point of view of a German expert (for which I have no basis). Also, I didn't mean to imply there was an "arrogance of science", just a misunderstanding of what science is.
tmRhema, while I do understand your point, and it is a rather interesting and important viewpoint, it is a commonly used phrase in German. Certainly because it is so illiterate. But there is another side to it. When I read the English translation "build" it didn't feel quite right. And personally I would prefer create. "er schafft" means "he accomplishes something after putting a lot of work into it." - "er geht schaffen." is still used in certain areas of Germany for "er geht arbeiten." (Don't use it though, it's bad German.) while "building something" can of course be hard work, it just doesn't have the same ring to it. Keep in mind though, this is just about feelings. Building is just as good a translation as creating. :)
In Western philosophy, there is no knowledge without a knower. Phenomena occur, but understanding or knowledge thereof is created through science.
Based on the German I learned as my first language many, many years ago before English became my primary language (i.e. not based on a dictionary), I would use "schaffen" = "produce," "create" or "accomplish" for something that is significant/surprising to do (e.g. "Science (actually) creates knowledge," or "Wir haben es geschafft" = "We (actually) accomplished it!"). I would use "machen" = "make" or "do" if the making is less significant/surprising (e.g. "Drei und drei macht sechs" = "Three plus three make six" or "Wir machen es jetzt" = "We are doing it now" with the emphasis on "now" rather than than on our being able to do it); and "tun" = "do" with an emphasis on what is being done rather than on what the outcome/product of that action/process is ("Das tut man nicht" = "One (simply) doesn't do that" or "Es tut mir Leid" = (literally) "It does me sorrow" = "I am sorry.")
I see no one has commented on this for a while, but I answered, "Science generates knowledge." Duo marked it wrong and in the red X - You used the wrong word section below, it said, "Science recreates knowledge." With "recreates" underlined. What would that even mean? And wouldn't "...generates knowledge." and "...brings knowledge." mean the same thing? I reported it with the "my answer should be accepted button."
I agree with you that "Science recreates knowledge" is a bizarre concept, far removed from what science is, regardless of its linguistic accuracy. As I wrote earlier, the translation "Science brings knowledge" makes a lot more sense in terms of what science is, and apparently is accurate language-wise.
Der dicke Dachdecker deckte das dicke Dach. Dann trug der dicke Dachdecker, die dicke Dame durch den dicken Dreck. Dann dankte die dicke Dame dem dicken Dachdecker, dass der dicke Dachdecker die dicke Dame durch den dicken Dreck trug.
This is far too simple for a real German tongue twister ("Zungenbrecher" in German btw, literally meaning "tongue breaker") The most common one in German is the following: "Fischers Fritze fischt frische Fische, frische Fische fischt Fischers Fritze."
Schaffen often has the sense of to manage, which I think is more appropriate, since the facts are already there ... not being made ... and it's clearly not literally bringing knowledge like the verb bringen ...
schaffen is "manage" in the sense of "succeed in accomplishing" (Ich habe es nicht mehr geschafft, meine Hausaufgaben rechtzeitig zu machen = I didn't manage to complete my homework in time), not in the sense "handle, direct, govern, administer, take charge of".
It wouldn't make sense to say that "Science succeeds in accomplishing knowledge".
Also, knowledge is not the same as facts. When you teach children science at school, you are not creating facts, but you are creating knowledge (in the children). The facts exist even if there is nobody to know them, but knowledge comes about only when somebody learns about the facts.
Perhaps "Science brings about knowledge" or "Science creates knowledge" might be clearer.
schaffen can also mean "bring, procure" (though perhaps more commonly in prefixed forms such as "herbeischaffen, heranschaffen") or "create" (also in the prefixed form "erschaffen") and I think those are what is meant here.
So, meanings 1 or 2 of http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/schaffen , rather than meaning 4 which could be "manage" in the sense I mentioned above.
so basically, science in German means "knowledge leg" or something similar to that?
No; the -schaft ending of words such as Wissenschaft, Rechenschaft, Herrschaft, Botschaft has nothing to do with the separate noun Schaft "shaft".
The ending is instead related to the English ending -ship as in "relationship, hardship, friendship" -- which in turn is not related to the noun "ship" as in boat.
Science would be "knowledgeship" if you want to split it up like that. But not "knowledge shaft".
if Wissen means knowledge and schaft means leg then it seems like "science" in German means "knowledge leg" "knowledge shaft" or other synonyms of branch or stock or whatever . Such as Krankenhaus aka hospital literally means "suffer house".
Die Kranken would be the sick ... Krankenhaus sounds like sick people house to me. The verb leiden means to suffer. The word "Bein" is the usual word for leg ...
I'm aware of that.... all I'm SAYING is it seems like German creates words by using agglutination. We say hospital, they put "sick and "house" together. We say television they say "fernsehen" which if you leave the two words by themselves it's "watch far away". anyway Kranken and Leiden are synonymous but that's beside my point.
You wrote "We say television they say "fernsehen" ... ." But "television" is in fact two (Greek) words meaning (translating directly into German) "fern" and "sehen." (And Leiden and Kranken are not synonymous; the former means suffering, pain or torment, while the later means those who are sick.
eplus17, I'm aware most of English came from combining two words together but the way we say it isn't as literal as, well, words like "kindergarten". that's the point I'm making. As with the example hospital, it came from the Latin hospes which became hospitalis which became the Medieval hospitale. the meaning of hospes is guest, host, or stranger not anything like "place for sick people"
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I wrote 'Science creates wisdom'. Marked wrong. Wissen looks more like wisdom than knowledge. Hate it when my english interferes with my german!
I hear ya, false friends can be a pain... But it makes sense that "Wissen" and "Weisheit" come from the same root I guess
Oooooh Holy mother, I wrote "wissen schafft schafft wissen" Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I think of Wissenschaft as "the shepherding of knowledge". Is there a connection between "schaft" "schaffen" and "Schaf"? Or is that just coincidence?
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I think none whatsoever. Schaffen (double "f" a short "a") means to create, make while die Schafe (single "f" and long "a") would be a sheep.
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Could you translate this as ¨Science causes knowledge.¨? Or is there a better German translation for the verb to cause?
Duo or Mizinamo, please patent this phrase. It is better than audi’s one. It is better than Volkswagen. It is better than BMI’s one. Vorprung durch Tecknik. Wissenschaft schafft Wissen.
P.S. If you manage to patent this phrase I want a cut on it. As well as all my Kumpels on DL. We all need a break from learning German
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Uns so weiter, uns so weiter. This is one of my favorite sentences. Along with 'I'm going to burn this village.'
Don’t know why you got downvoted for that suggestion Grafiker. I think it is great. Have a lingot. ‘Vorsprung durch Technik’ eat your heart out.
