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  5. How is the patronymic formed?

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zzzzz...

How is the patronymic formed?

I would like to know how to form a patronymic both in general and for myself. I am a woman and my father's name is Timo. Would it be Timonovna, Timovna or something completely different?

March 31, 2016

28 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ythinn

Russian registry offices have a pretty robust set of rules for making up patronymics from unusual (from the Russian point of view) names: see e.g. http://zags.kurganobl.ru/obrazovanie_i_napisanie_otchestv.html

Your case is covered by the rule number 4: "Если имя оканчивается на неударный гласный о, к нему добавляется -ович / овна, причём конечный гласный имени и начальный суффикса сливаются в один звук [о]: Василько + ович/овна, Михайло + ович/овна, Отто + ович/овна."

Translation: 'If the name ends on an unstressed -o, the patronymic is formed by appending the suffix -ович/овна, bearing in mind that the final vowel of the name blends with the initial vowel of the suffix into a single [o] sound: Василько + ович/овна, Михайло + ович/овна, Отто + ович/овна.'

So the final result is Timovna (which I must say sounds quite pretty and melodic considering the possible alternatives).

March 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zzzzz...

Thank you so much. Lingot rain! :)

March 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ythinn

The clouds, methought, would open and show riches ready to drop upon me...

Eipä kestä. ;j

March 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amaratea

That's really helpful, thanks! i remember one long discussion (not here) about how to make a patronymic from Франсуа. According to this link, it should be Франсуаевна which sounds a bit odd but not too much, but it never occured to anyone. I do remember someone suggesting to "Germanify" the name and register the girl as "Францисковна" :D

March 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ythinn

Yeah, it's a tricky line to walk - making sure that the original names remain instantly recognisable without getting confused with other names and at the same time don't sound outlandishly jarring. I think the rules do a pretty decent job at doing all that, things considered.

No harm in an occasional bout of armchair linguistics (and the rules do make a specific reservation that if you come up with a better alternative, then you're free to use it), but Франсуаевна is clearly the superior option here. That vowel cluster in the middle makes it a whole poem of a word delivered with a curtsey or two. ;j

March 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amaratea

Yes, I like Франсуаевна too. Sounds smooth and rolls down the tongue nicely.

March 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexeiSche

Yes, Франсуаевна now, probably Франсуазовна (sounds more natural in Russian). If you lived in the times of the Russian Empire (the end XVIII- early XX century), your patronymic would be Францевна or Францисковна (in the German manner).

April 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amaratea

Just curious - will you every get this message? :) Is tehre any way we can get in touch again?

June 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aleksandro_RU

I see a mistake there. They didn't write anything about names Илья, Лука, Фома, Кузьма etc.

The patronymics for women should be not "Ильяевна" (as in p. 11), but "Ильинична", "Лукинична", "Фоминична", "Кузьминична"...

For men — as if it was unstressed: "Ильич", "Лукич"...

October 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tattamin

Good question - I really want to know how it works with Timo.
From what I have learned (ages ago), you add "-ovna" if the father's name ends in a consonant (thus: Ivanovna, Aleksandrovna, Antonovna, ...). If the name ends in an "e" sound, you add "-evna" instead, e.g. Andre(j)evna, Serge(j)evna, ...
I have no idea what to do when the name ends in -o, though.
Edited to include the omitted "n"s

March 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nikolai_Novikov

Timo is a full name? Dont know suomi roots but if it is related to Timothy (Тимофей in russian) it would be Тимофеевна. Otherwise I would stick with Timovna - considering the differences in language it is "good enough" - Im guessing russian version of Тимо wold not sound suomi anyway

March 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zzzzz...

Just noticed the question mark, two years later. Better late than never. The names you mention, and many other similar names, are derived from the Greek Τιμόθεος (“honoured by God”), which has spread to most Christian countries in one form or another due to biblical association. Timo, the Finnish variant, came to Finland from Germany. It is still a relatively common name in Germany, although not as common as it is in Finland. The same name is rarer but still found in The Netherlands and Estonia, and also, rather strangely, in Bulgaria. :)

June 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexeiSche

I suppose you will be Timovna. The difficulty is that I don't know Russian male names ending in "-о".

March 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larisa_L

It is not common now, but in old times many male names ended in o, a well known example is МихАйло - current version МихаИл, I guess that is why the patronymic is not МихаИловна, as you would expect, but МихАйловна.

March 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexeiSche

Михайло, Павло, Гришко - the Ukrainian versions of the Rissian names Михаил, Павел, Гриша.

April 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larisa_L

Not only, they were widespread in Russia centuries ago, but changed over time, which didn't happen in Ukraine.

April 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nikolai_Novikov

IIRC the names are actually Latin so we are talking abour russian, ukranian versions.

One of the names of the bear in russian is Михайло Потапович (also known as Михайл Топтыгин) which implies that o-s were spread at some point in Russia too.

P.S. Wouldn't it be ironic if "-o"-s were an influence of Finns? :D

April 4, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zzzzz...

Finnish names do not have gender indicators. Men’s names and women’s names can end in any letter that can take the final position in a noun. The single exception to this rule is -kki, which is an ending for female names of Karelian origin. Since Indo-European names have a tendency to have preferences regarding final letters, we will have to find irony somewhere else. By the way, when I was five, I thought that Nikita Khrushchev was a woman, because almost all European names ending in a seemed to be women’s names! :P

As far as I know, there are only two commonly used Finnish loanwords in Russian: морж and сауна. Finnish, on the other hand, has countless Russian loan words. :)

June 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larisa_L

An interesting list, thank you for sharing Z

June 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nikolai_Novikov

So Тимофеевна is quite feasible. Did a quick google and apparently тундра, пурга, салага can also be added to list (although cant say for sure if they were loaned from suomi or other peoples of that group). Also heard that "лопатник" is derived from lompakko (in the late soviet union when visiting suomi were selling stuff to russian фарца)

June 15, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BellRenjji

How would you form a patronymic for a female when there father's name is Renat (Ренат)? I also would like to know if Russian last names come from. I know the ending changes depending on if it is a boy or girl, hence why two siblings have different last names.

June 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amaratea

Ренатовна (Renatovna).

Re. Russian last names if I understood you right: they can come from a variety of sources, it can be a name (Алексеев, Алексеева), nature, e.g. fruits or vegetables (Виноградов, Виноградова), animals (Медведев, Медведева), or weather (Громов, Громова), religion of course (Рождественский, Рождественская) and things that are now long lost. there is some story behind each one usually.

June 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nikolai_Novikov

Usually family names mean "of someone's (family)" - and hence have corresponding ending dependent on gender in -ov/-ev/-in (-ova/eva/-ina for girls) like for example Кузнецов (implies "из рода кузнеца"), but also possible to have familyname without this "'s" e.g. simply Кузнец (though it is more typical for ukranian or german familynames) and in this case it would be the same regardless of gender.

I hear in scandinavia (at least in iceland ) they also have this e.g. Svensson vs Svensdottir- I mean when you break it down it is odd for a woman to be called John's son (especially if John was actually a great-great-grea-grandfather).

June 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TigerLily754524

Dose anyone know what the patronymic for the name lyonechka would be for a girl would it end with -ovna or -evna and would Kalabina be the right version of the last name for a girl or how will it end and the last name vazov how would that end I believe they both end with a if I'm wrong can someone tell me the right way for it to end thank you for all the help I'm writing a story where the to main characters are Russian so I just want to make sure their names are right

June 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larisa_L

Lyonechka is Leonid, so Leonidovna for a woman, Leonidovich for a man. Both Kalabina (female) Kalabin (male) and Vazov (male), Vazova (female) sound like fine Russian last names.

June 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TigerLily754524

Thank you. Would there be anyway for a patronymic to be formed with the spelling of Lyonechka

June 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larisa_L

no, it is not a full first name, it's a pet name. Patronymics are not made from pet names.

June 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TigerLily754524

Thank you I didn't know but you were a big help

June 24, 2018
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