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  5. "Tamte kobiety jedzą ciastecz…

"Tamte kobiety jedzą ciasteczka."

Translation:Those women are eating cookies.

April 3, 2016

16 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maxamongmins

why are we learning ciasteczka instead of ciastka? I was told by a Polish friend that ciasteczka would sound silly unless you were referring to little cookies for a child.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Silly is a bit too strong, but it's a diminutive, true. I've also wondered about this for a long time. This is a legacy of the previous team working on the course when it started ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WilliamExtre

Simple Present tense version should be acceptable: These women eat cookies


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/br0d4
Mod
  • 1870

But "these" doesn't work here, you have to use "those".

Polish "ten" may be English "this" or "that". But Polish "tamten" may only be English "that", and the same with plurals. See above, or perhaps clearer explained here: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/26090156


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RoboticRocketeer

Having trouble fitting ci, te, tamte into the first scheme presented. Where do they fit in relation to ten, ta, tę, to, and the tam- variations?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/br0d4
Mod
  • 1870

Check the indicative pronouns for their declension. But "tam" - means "there" and it is a different thing.

THIS is "ten", "ta", "to".

THESE is "ci", "te"

  • ten - male singular in Nominative - f.ex. "ten mężczyzna" [this man];
  • ta - female singular in Nominative - f.ex. "ta kobieta" [this woman]
  • to - neutral singular in Nominative - f.ex. "to dziecko" [this child]
  • ci - male plural in Nominative - f.ex. "ci mężczyźni" [these men]
  • te - not-male plural in Nominative - f.ex. "te kobiety" [these women], "te dzieci" [these children].

ten,ta,to,ci,te

THAT is "tamten", "tamta", "tamto" or less used "ów", "owa", "owo"

THOSE is "tamci", "tamte" or less used "owi", "owe"

tamten,tamta,tamto,tamci,tamte ów,owa,owo,owi,owe

A bit more explanation

In the Prea-Indo-European language there existed pronouns to describe 3 possible distances to an object. In Middle English they were: this; that; yonder, but in modern English they were reduced to this; that; that. In Middle Polish they were: ten (ta, to); ów (owa, owo); tamten (tamta, tamto) , but in modern Polish were reduced to ten; ten; tamten and "ów (owa, owo)" became almost a synonym for "tamten (tamta, tamto)". As you see, in English, the one that was in the middle "that" took the function of the furtherest "yonder". In Polish the closest one "ten (ta, to)" was extended to the middle. See again:

  • this; that; yonder -> this; that; that
  • ten; ów; tamten -> ten; ten; tamten

This is the reason why often what is in Polish "ten (ta, to)" (the closest one) is translated to English "that".

Also, please remember, that in Polish we have a lot more pronouns than exist in English. I have also linked a Polish Wiktionary page about Polish pronouns , but you may also like to take a look at the English Wiktionary page about Polish pronouns - but remember, that both these pages are actually incomplete.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TARDISToni

Łukasz (br0d4), this explanation (and also the one below) is very helpful, thank you! I find the history of languages fascinating - I studied it at university myself - so this is great stuff to read. However, for those of us using the mobile app, at least on some platforms, when the text of a hyperlink is changed from the original address - as you did three times in your first post above, and twice in your second comment below - we are not able to follow it. It essentially becomes a dead link. And I would really like to check these examples, so as to better understand the topic.

Would someone be so kind as to copy and paste the hyperlinks in Łukasz's first comment above, for us mobile users to be able to follow? The links in the second comment as well would be even better. Thank you so much! :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/br0d4
Mod
  • 1870

Thank you for your nice words.

These are the links in the first post:

And in the second:


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KristineKruszer

Still doesn't work. For mobile you can't have a link within a text. Just the link itself please


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/br0d4
Mod
  • 1870

OK, changed to links only. Does it work now?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/immery

Do you know the difference between "oni" and "one"?

Oni: Ci- these (men) Tamci - those (men)

One

Te- these (women) tamte-those (women)

oni- masculine personal nouns, and groups of people that include at least one male person

one- not masculine personal nouns, groups that include female people only


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RoboticRocketeer

Yep, I remembered those differences.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lija611373

There is an error/bug. I took a screenshot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

In that case please upload the screenshot on any image hosting website and post it in the comment :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DarcX

Is it just me or does the audio sound like it's saying jedą more so so than jedzą?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/br0d4
Mod
  • 1870

I think the audio is fine... "z" in "dz" is just so lightly pronounced.

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