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"He serves wine to the women."

Translation:Él les sirve vino a las mujeres.

4 years ago

71 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Richlvnsn

Why are they suddenly using present tense in the past tense section?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GaiusAugustus

It's because vino can be a noun or a past tense verb.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Thpppppht

Vino might also be used as a past tense, but the sentence is definitely NOT past tense.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/skepticalways

Thpppppt, I agree, it sure confused me. (But it does not take much to do that en español!) Lucky for me I had the lesson that gave me a multiple-choice answer. :-)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kmorgan1984
kmorgan1984
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It is a good way to learn when you don't get questions you expect to get.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/skepticalways

Kmorgan, I agree! If I see the usage in sentences first, it also helps me to discern what the speaker is saying later, sometimes without clicking the "turtle-speed" button! I'm more of a visual learner than a person who is good at picking up audible phrases easily.

I try to remember when I'm speaking to someone who is learning the language to enunciate well, and not speak at a rapid-fire speed.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Sequoia697316

Me too

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Linda_from_NJ

It's good that the difference in the word usage is the object of a lesson. How else can we learn it except by being exposed to it?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Defaulto1

Estoy de acuerdo.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/maricleshappen

It's been helping me read the sentences more carefully. I have lost hearts because I provide the past tense for a present-tense sentence.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Hhowell4694

It is called distributive learning and it is more difficult but helps you learn and retain the information much better than just studying a section where you can already assume everything is one tense. I didn't even notice they were doing that until I saw your comment. It'll be more beneficial in the long run!

Edit: distributive learning theory with (as poster is referring to) varied practice

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Parmachella

I looked up distributive learning, and the only definition I could find describes a multi media model in which the instructor and learner can be in different places. While that may be true for DL, it doesn't explain the computer generated placement of present tense into past tense learning modules. Most likely, you are ascribing too much intention to the literalness of the computer program. I used to pull my hair out in frustration at DL "method" until I realized the problem is in the programming. So once in a while a white sock is thrown in with the black socks. I don't get upset anymore, especially since they stopped the broken hearts penalties.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Hhowell4694

Nope, it has little or nothing to do with the platform. I described it in my own words.

Sorry, I should have referred to it as distributed/distributive learning theory which is also called distributive practice. But as far as the random white sock being thrown in, that's varied practice which is being incorporated into the distributed practice that duo (I assume) is created for.

I think both may apply here.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OnesimusUnbound

Jaja, I also notice it. Strange

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Sky-man

Shouldn't it be translated in this section as "He served wine to the women."?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Talca
Talca
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No, the verb is in the present tense here.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ElliotNovak

I put "El sirve vino a las mujeres" and it was marked correct. How is it that the sentence is correct either with the I.O. or without? (El with the accent over the E)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GaiusAugustus

I could be wrong, but I see this sentence with two possible translations. 1) "He serves them wine" where them is talking about the women. In this case, we would use the indirect object PLUS a las mujeres to clarify. 2) "He serves wine to the women", which doesn't need an indirect object.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/game-biz
game-biz
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Can anyone confirm whether the above is true or not? As far as I know, "les" has to be included in this sentence no matter if "las mujeres" is there or not.

So, "El sirve vino a las mujeres" should be wrong, right? Since it's lacking the indirect object, "les."

But, "El les sirve vino a las mujeres" and ""El les sirve vino" should be the only correct answers, right?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Filiper2
Filiper2
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The sentence was correct without the 'les' after Él. April 2016

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tessbee

Hi, Phil. I believe Duo was wrong marking that correct. Hope they've fixed it. (Edit: Hmm... later saw Talca's post below, though, so... :) )

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tessbee

I believe you're absolutely right. That's also how I understand it: the IOP has to be there whether or not "a las mujeres" or "a ellas" is added at the end of the sentence. A native speaker from Mexico who teaches college Spanish in California confirmed this to me in an email.

Edit: After reading Talca's other post (below) that says the contrary, guess I'll have to go with it.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DavidMoore622957

The "les" is optional. It is very common in spoken Spanish and is something native English speakers should get in the habit of doing as well. Nevertheless, it is not required.

If the sentence were "He serves wine to them," then "les" would be required, whether "a ellas" were added or not. The fact that it's "a las mujeres" and not "a ellas" is the reason it's optional.

This is one of those areas that is very difficult for native English speakers to wrap their heads around. So-called clitic doubling is absent from English and the rules governing the practice are difficult to find. Moreover, when you do find easy to follow guides, they're often wrong or incomplete. Even native Spanish speakers may or may not know what's really considered mandatory.

When push comes to shove on such matters, I defer to the RAE. They weren't exactly handed tablets from on high, but they are considered authoritative. Meanwhile, it's worth recognizing the fact that academic linguists write nearly opaque scholarly articles devoted to this subject. So, I expect there continues to be room for some disagreement.

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SGuthrie0

"to the women" IS the indirect object. "Wine" is the direct object. Sentences don't "need" an indirect object, but this one has one.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kendallwahouske

What is the importance of the word "les"?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ph516503
ph516503
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"les" is the indirect object meaning "to them".

"a las mujeres" is used to clarify that "them" means "the women". You could leave "a las mujeres" out of the sentence, and it would be a perfectly valid sentence: "él les sirve vino" = he serves wine to them / he serves them wine.

However, without "a las mujeres" you wouldn't know if he was serving wine to "the women", "the men", "the children", "the elephants", or "the giant bugsplatter beasts of Nebulon 7".

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nasturium

I give lingots for laughs. Thank you ph516503

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ph516503
ph516503
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You're welcome, and thanks for the lingot :-)

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ezaltz

ph516503, could you please explain why " les" and not "las or los". I have not been clear on that. Thanks.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ph516503
ph516503
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Les is the indirect object, so the closest translation is usually "TO them" - "he gives 'to them' the wine"...

Las or los are both direct, so just mean "them". "los/las veo" = "I saw them"

What confuses people (me included) is that in English we'd just say "he gives them the wine" and the "to" is implied... so we often forget that the indirect pronoun is needed. If you changed the word order of the English sentence around to say "he gives the wine to them" you can see that the use of the indirect "to them" becomes more obvious.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SimeonGold

One, two, buckle my shoe.

You Buckle your own shoe!

Three, four, shut the door.

You shut it! You opened it!

(That's from a Shell Silverstein poem)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dremwr
dremwr
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Isn't les kind of redundant though if you are already saying "a las mujeres". It would be like saying "i am giving wine to them the women"

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ph516503
ph516503
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The "les" is required, but "a las mujeres" is optional - see my post above for details.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Linda_from_NJ

Isn't "les" masculine or neuter gender while "las" is feminine gender? Do you know why "les" is used instead of "las?"

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ph516503
ph516503
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la/lo/las/los are used to specify gender, but these are Direct Objects: they can only be used as replacements for something that is having an action performed on it. In this case the direct object of the sentence is the wine (which is being served), and this is specified by name instead of using a pronoun, so "lo" is not used.

Le / les are indirect objects, and these are gender neutral (le means either "to him" or "to her", les means "to them") The women are the indirect objects (the wine is being served to them).

Hope that helps... it gets very confusing ;-)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Linda_from_NJ

A lingot for your help. Another question, please. I believe that "le" is always changed to "se" when it comes before the object pronoun "lo" so that "le lo" becomes "se lo" and thus sounds better and is easier to say. Is it the same with "le la" and "les lo?" Do they also get changed to "se la" and "se lo?" Gracias.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JohanMarti9

In case of the latter being served wine, wouldn't "le" be the correct form? ;-)

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Talca
Talca
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The les isn't refering to the wine, but to the women, so the singular form (le) is incorrect.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Linda_from_NJ

I am confused why "les" is used instead of "las." Do you have any explanation? Isn't "les" used in reference to women?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Talca
Talca
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las isn't an indirect pronoun; les is.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/skepticalways

ph516513, ¿O, posiblemente, a mi pingüinos? (Did I say that correctly? I hate to goof up, especially "in public," but most forum friends are very forgiving.) :-}

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/t.guizzetti

lol

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mjacobs

el vino isn't correct? I notice that sometimes Doulingo uses the article in situations such as this.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/pmm123
pmm123
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https://www.duolingo.com/OnesimusUnbound

Out of curiousity, does removing "las" change the meaning of the sentence or not?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GaiusAugustus

I assume so. In English, there is a difference between "He serves wine to the women" and "He serves wine to women". One has a connotation of what he is doing now and with whom. The other has a connotation of a more broad action. I have no idea if this carries over to Spanish, though.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SyamkumarR
SyamkumarR
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But it was marked corredt when l entered 'El sirve vino a las mujeres'.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Talca
Talca
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I just discussed this grammar point with a retired Spanish professor (Ph.D.). She told me that in a sentence like this the les is not 100% necessary, but native speakers use it a lot. So, if DL is now accepting the answer without the les I am glad about that.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MamaLori5-30
MamaLori5-30
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Thank you for that clarification. I tend to forget to include the IO and sometimes DL accepts my answer and sometimes not. Glad to hear that it would be understand if I left it out although it would sound better if I include it. (Thankfully, most of the people with whom I speak Spanish are very kind and understanding of my feeble little attempts!)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SusannaEDavis420

!Gracias, Talca!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/andiness1

Gracias, Talca! I had been having trouble understand why dl needed the io sometimes but not others. This helps clear that up.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Casiquire

I'm so happy they have a present tense sentence here. Actually every time we learn new verbs or a new tense I'd love a lesson that mixes up all the verbs and tenses we've used to date. Are you listening, DL? :oP

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GaiusAugustus

From my understanding, Duolingo doesn't have anyone watch these boards. But they do have people over at https://www.duolingo.com/discussion

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SusannaEDavis420

In this sentence you don't need to add the indirect object because I got it right without the "les". How do we know for sure when we don't need to use it?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PabloSueno
PabloSueno
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I think both sentences are correct in Spanish (with or without the “les”). In the sentence with the “les”, “les” is an indirect object pronoun and “a las mujeres” is a phrase clarifying the meaning. In the sentence without the “les”, “a las mujeres” is a prepositional phrase with a noun in it. That is also permissible in Spanish. What you can’t do in Spanish, is just have the prepositional phrase with a pronoun, like “Él sirve vino a ellas.” In that case you also need the “les”. (I’m not a Spanish-speaker, but I’m pretty sure that’s right..)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ph516503
ph516503
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that's sneaky - they snuck in a present tense question amongst all the preterites! I really must read the question properly next time...

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Talca
Talca
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The computer picked up on vino and read it as a past tense verb instead of a noun (wine).

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Amodia
Amodia
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I was happy when I noticed that it was in the present. I was sad when I didn't notice it was the plural of woman. :P

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/simplica
simplica
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If Les were left out can that still be correct?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ginagillen
ginagillen
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Why is les required here?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Patricia460976

I used "damas" for women and it marked me wrong. Should not have done as "mujeres" is not considered polite according to my Chilean spouse. Of course this was many years ago.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/goodwilhealthy

Well is it past or present tense? I put servio since we are in the past tense chapter.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GaiusAugustus

This one is present tense. It's pointing out "vino", which can either be a past tense verb or a noun, depending on context.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MaxCriollo

Why isn't "para las mujeres" acceptable as an alternative?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AndreaLynnette

I think because that means "for the women" suggesting that he's serving wine to someone else on their behalf.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Bezy_Gamer

Se sirve el vino a las mujeres. is pretty much the same

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DavidMoore622957

Not really. The transitive verb servir has a different meaning than the pronominal or reflexive form servirse.

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/edoggroy

What is the point of "les" in this sentence?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DavidMoore622957

It's the indirect object pronoun that complements the phrase "a las mujeres." It's frequently included in spoken Spanish. I'm afraid there's no good explanation for it from a native English speaker's perspective, since this is a sentence structure we do not have. In fact, it would be considered definitely wrong in English.

It would be like saying, "He serves them the wine to the women."

You could argue that in Spanish such duplication adds emphasis to the women, but I don't see what sort of emphasis it adds here, or why. Obviously, we lack any sort of context to motivate the need for any such emphasis. So, that part will have to remain a mystery.

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Zina77997

I wrote "El servir vino a la mujeres" and felt very confident. WRONG

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/FrodoSwagins

what is les for?

9 months ago