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- "I libri sono nostri."
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We need an ITALIAN friend to confirm, but I am pretty sure either way is correct. I think "i nostri" just has a slightly different nuance- emphasizing that they are ours and not someone elses.
So, should DuoLingo accept either "i libri sono i nostri" or just "i libri sono nostri"? It seems that the former ("i nostri") is more consistent with the other possessives they are teaching us...
I don't remember exactly the rules, but I'm pretty sure repeating the article i is a syntax error here. It is the same problem with a sentence before, La bottiglia è la tua.
it seems to me that without the article, the meaning is 'for us', while with the article the meaning is 'ours'. Similarly with 'il suo' and 'suo' etc. I take it that 'la cucina è sua' has the sense of 'the kitchen is all his' i.e. 'he can have the kitchen'. Hope this is right. Seachlann.
The way it was explained to me goes like this:
"I libri sono nostri" would mean "The books are ours (and not someone else's)." "I libri sono i nostri" would mean "The books (these, not some others) are ours."
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I'm not saying your explanation is incorrect, but that distinction would seem irrelevant given the exercise is to learn very simple possessives. The translation is "The books are ours". If the intent was to teach us this nance, then the translation would need to be equally nuanced. Both should be accepted at this stage.
Both ways are accepted, and have been for some time. Duolingo is not teaching the distinction.
According to the books i've learned with, the possessive adjective always needs to have an article before it apart from when the noun accords to family relationships and isn't modified. So according to that, "i libri sono nostri" should be wrong... ?
Both are equally valid, particularly with no context to suggest one way or the other.
But with or without the definite article in the possessive pronoun subtly changes the meaning.
- "La gatta è la mia" means "The CAT (and not something else) is mine."
- "La gatta è mia" means "The cat is MINE (and not someone else's)."
I think so, because "i" means "the (plural)." So, "i libri sono i nostri" would literally mean, "The books are THE ours," which doesn't make sense.
But Italian possessive adjectives are always preceded by the definite article.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure, based on what we've learned so far, that that would have a definite article. We always say " the ours" and "the my apples" in Italian, right? And I think that's true for everything except singular family members.
In this example its not an adjective, but a possessive pronoun. They look the same though. In case of pronouns, the article is often omitted.
“I tuoi libri sono (i) miei”
“tuoi” is attached to the noun "libri", thus, it’s a possessive adjective. ‘miei’ is used on its own, substitutes the noun mentioned, thus, it’s a possessive pronoun.
Copying from my grammar book:
….Finally, when used as a possessive pronoun (i.e. not attached to a noun) the article is often omitted
Di chi sono questi occhiali? Sono miei!
(Whose spectacles are these? They are mine)…..
Omission usually comes with 'essere'. Hope this makes it clear for you.
Thanks for your post - it wasn't so much clarification I was after (though your post was admirably clear) but support of your view from someone else as folk didn't seem to follow up on your point. - which then came from you :) Have a lingot.
le farfalle sono le nostre was correct but I libri sono nostri was correct without putting in the article. Please explain why article not used!
Le farfalle sono (le) nostre. I libri sono (i) nostri. The article there is optional, although whether you use it or not changes the meaning subtly.
I know. Click on the speak button, then click the listen button. It accepts itself
No, they are not the same. "These books" means "the books that are here". "Those books" means "the books that are there". "The books" means "the books that could be anywhere".
Is there any appreciable difference between "They are our books" and "the books are ours"? Because I'm not seeing one...
In meaning, I think the two are equivalent. However, grammatically, they are different. In "they are our books"/"[loro] sono i nostri libri", "they"/"loro" is the subject while in "the books are ours"/"i libri sono nostri", "the books"/"i libri" is the subject. Since the subject and direct object in both refer to the same physical entity, the difference is subtle. The former might be used to emphasize who owns the books (e.g., they are our books, not yours) while the latter might be used to emphasize what is owned (e.g., the books, but not the magazines, are ours).
As TomBushaw said, the difference is in grammatical structure and possibly emphasis.
They are our books:
They: third person plural pronoun for the subject
our books: a noun phrase for the predicate where "our" is the possessive adjective
The books are ours:
The books: a noun phrase for the subject
ours: a possessive pronoun for the predicate
It should be marked incorrect. You're changing the grammar around.
The books are ours.
"the books" - noun phrase as the subject
"ours" - possessive pronoun as the predicate complement
They are our books.
"they" - pronoun as the subject
"our books" - noun phrase consisting of a possessive adjective and noun as the predicate complement
Rae.F Ive been reading your input to the many questions people have. I want to thank you on how clear your answers are. Your style of detailed information is very helpful . Thank you! Hope you are still commenting as i continue to learn!
So basically it becomes nostri instead of nostro when it is books (plural) instead of book? I think I am getting it
the book is ours = il libro è nostro
the books are ours = i libri sono nostri
See the post from possumaki above. "nostri" is a possessive pronoun here (not a possessive adjective) since it is not followed by a noun). As such, the preceeding "i" may not be necessary (particularly when following the verb essere). Ray F. says "Except for family members, when it's the possessive adjective, the article is mandatory. When it's the possessive pronoun, the article is optional (although it does change the meaning subtly)."
il nostro = our singular masculine thing
i nostri = our plural masculine things
la nostra = our singular feminine thing
le nostre = our plural feminine things
And it needs to agree in number and gender with the object that is possessed, not those who are possessing. For example: If you are a group of women (le donne, feminine plural) possessing a bunch of books (i libri, masculine plural), you would say nostri libri (NOT nostre libri).
Nostra is feminine singular, nostre feminine plural, nostri masculine plural
Nostri is used when referring to a masculine plural object (here, "books"). Nostro is used when referring to a masculine singular object (e.g., "il libro").
I think I read somewhere else that if "nostri" (or similar) are the last word in the sentence you can omit the article. can anyone confirm? I don't remember where I read this
Except for family members, when it's the possessive adjective, the article is mandatory. When it's the possessive pronoun, the article is optional (although it does change the meaning subtly).
I libri sono i nostri = The books are ours.
I libri sono i miei = The books are mine.
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"L'ape e la nostra" Now this one.. "I libri sono nostri"
Why "la" in one and no "i" in the other?
Both are equally valid, particularly with no context to suggest one way or the other.
But with or without the definite article in the possessive pronoun subtly changes the meaning.
- "La gatta è la mia" means "The CAT (and not something else) is mine."
- "La gatta è mia" means "The cat is MINE (and not someone else's)."
