https://www.duolingo.com/Merrowmic

Esperanto Features Absent

I have noticed that there is no 'Words' list and 'Esperanto Fluency % meter' in the 'Esperanto from English' course. Is it in the works perhaps, or has it simply been omitted?

April 8, 2016

22 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/oxq

As far as I know, Duolingo doesn't have plans to implement this feature for Esperanto or any other courses that originated from the incubator.

You may want to check out memrise as there is often a memrise course with vocabulary based off of the Duolingo course.

April 8, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Merrowmic

Thank you for that observation and for your suggestion. I will check it out and report any observations of my own.

April 8, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal

Some precisions:

for Esperanto or any other courses that originated from the incubator.

The exact difference between courses having it and those not having it, isn't for the course to have been created in the incubator or not. For example, IT for ES speakers and DE for FR speakers have it and have been created in the incubator.
In Duo system, there are two "kind" of languages:

  • those based on an older (and less flexible for volunteers while creating courses) system:
    FR, EN, DE, IT, ES, PT
  • those based on a more recent system:
    all other languages.

This difference and which language belongs to which group is purely "Duo history" related. It's indeed linked to incubator. It depends only on the language having or not at least one course teaching it before the incubator was launched.
One of the reason for the change, afaik, was for the courses' creation process to be easier for volunteers. But, doing that, the features that were based on (and were needing) those "less flexible" things that have been kicked out of the process don't work anymore. Also, if you make it easier for volunteers to create courses (by having them to define less things), then it's more work after for Duo to manage the features on users side with less technical information defined by volunteers in the course.

This explained, it's why:

  • Words tab is available only for courses teaching an "older system" language from another "older system" language
  • Fluency is available only for courses teaching an "older system" language (whatever the from language)

Duolingo doesn't have plans to implement this feature for

As far as I know, they want to develop it. But as explained a little above, by making it easier for volunteers (to create courses), they made it harder for them to bring those features for those other languages (and, in any case, made them having to do it in a totally different manner than for the courses that have them).
Afaik, Duo wants to add them but it'll take time.

By the way, the recent A/B test on Words tab was very likely for them to evaluate if this tab was helping users enough to justify for them to allocate in priority developpers time to bringing it to other languages (and thus reduce the time allocate to the development of other features) or not.


EDIT: 2016/07/26
There is currently an A/B test ("sg_sf_fluency_score_experiment") running, since at least 2016/05/25, making that some of us do have a "Fluency" score on (at least some of the) courses teaching a language that is not one of the 6 "oldest languages on Duo"

April 8, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/GeorgeBurns0

https://www.duolingo.com/comment/16010897

Hi. I read here the fluency badge is available in Swedish. It is also available in Polish (the only course I'm currently taking which has it). I'm trying to find out which other languages have it. Any help that anyone can offer is greatly appreciated.

July 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal

Hi. I read here the fluency badge is available in Swedish.

Yes, it's due to the A/B test I'm talking about in the EDITION at the end of the above comment. ;)

Any help that anyone can offer is greatly appreciated.

See my answer in said discussion (I wrote some minutes ago ;) ).

July 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/GeorgeBurns0

Hi. I really thank you for your help. But I can't seem to figure out which courses have it and which ones do not. I am using duolingo from desktop (not mobile phone). Does that make a difference? Thanks again. Basically I'd like to pick another course and I'm weighing which one I want to choose. There is a course hatching I am waiting for, but I like this fluency badge feature, and if a language that appeals to me has it, I will probably take it.

July 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal

The only way is to start the course and take few lessons to see if a Fluency number appears or not. No other way.
And only someone in the group of users (of the A/B test group) that have it for Swedish (for example) can do this test.

July 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal

@1chi5o GeorgeBurns0:
everybody has it for all courses teaching DE, EN, ES, FR, IT and PT (cf. my first comment above).

Then, some users have it for: SV (from EN), PL (from EN) and maybe some other courses.

Nobody has it(*) for RU, UK, TR, HU, GA and probably other courses.


(*) Given that GeorgeBurns0 is in the group of users that have it for more courses (than just DE, EN, ES, FR, IT and PT) but nevertheless don't have it for RU, UK, TR, HU and GA.

August 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/GeorgeBurns0

thanks for your latest answer jrikhal

July 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/1chi5o

Of the courses I'm taking (and that you're currently not), German and French have the Fluency badge.

August 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/GeorgeBurns0

1chi50, thanks for your help

August 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/OmaJennie

It seems to me that a words list (glossary) is a very useful device. In the course I'm using With a complete glossary, I refer to the glossary frequently. It could, however, be streamlined a lot, by 1) not listing every single conjugate as a separate entry, unless used as an adjective or noun; and, 2) by having conjugation tables (with the translation(s) given with the infinitives).

In the course I'm using WithOut a glossary, I have several times already requested a glossary be added to the program; and, am very frustrated that their is no way to refer back to a list of the words to review their definitions, and no way to review individual verb conjugations.

Another useful feature would be the ability to stop in the middle of a lesson or skill practice to review various Tips & Notes, then return to the same place in said lesson or practice.

How is it that your volunteers are able to construct a course without a glossary? Don't they have to use some sort of list in order to keep track of the words they're putting into the vocabulary?

If not a glossary, then how about linking directly to a dictionary? There are some of us who don't want or don't have the skills to go traipsing all over the internet to locate some other website's language specific dictionary.

I also like the "Fluency % Meter". It's kind of nice to have an assessment, even if I do realize that my "real world" Fluency is probably only about 30% of the rating on the meter. Seeing the percentage on the Fluency Meter just gives me an incentive to keep going; much more so than trying to keep a streak alive long enough to earn a lingot.

June 8, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Cedric_Castel

Yes, in theory a glossary is very useful. But as a matter of fact, the implementation of the words lists of Duolingo has a MASSIVE defect : the choice of sentences that show up in exercises is based on it. That means sentences containing weak words appear in priority. But also sentences that contain words that ARE NOT FEATURED IN THE WORDS LIST. And that's where the defect lies : MANY words, although they are featured in sentences, are never inserted in the words list, so Duo cannot update their knowledge level, and they are subsequently considered as unknown/weak : so the same sentences with always the same words, absent from the words list, will show up ETERNALLY. This makes Duolingo experience a real pain and many learners are just disgusted at always seeing the same sentences that they know by heart showing up until the end of time.

This bug must be solved. Either 1) all words featured in the sentences must be inserted in the list as soon as they show up , or 2) the query on which Duolingo retrieves "weak" words must not include words that are not featured in the list.

The solution 1) should be the best, because so many words are missing in the lists that they are not meaningful at all. I've tracked dozens of German words that show up in sentences and are absent from the list. I hope it's just the people who build the courses who forget to "flag" the words for insertion in the lists. If it's just that, they should do it or somebody should do it (I can help) But maybe there are architectural reasons why some words are not inserted in words lists...That means this architecture has to be thought through again entirely because this bug is fundamental and ruins the experience of Duolingo, so I think it should be tackled as the highest priority.

June 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/LarsHogberg

I have never noticed this. Could you give examples of words that are missing?

August 5, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Cedric_Castel

hundreds are missing in my German list : Feuerwehr, Zunge, Gehirn... and also in my Spanish list : toneladas...

August 5, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/LarsHogberg

Ok. I make sure that I strengthen every skill to gold every day, and I can't remember seeing these words very often.

August 5, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Cedric_Castel

but are they in your own list ? I see them popping up all the time, although they're not in mine, and I think that is the reason...

August 5, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/LarsHogberg

I just checked, and no, they are also not in my list. How is the strength of the words in your word list? Even though I keep my tree golden, I still have hundreds of weak words in the Word-list, probably because I mostly strengthen skills one by one and never uses the flashcard-function.

I was just thinking that if all my words in the Word-list would have been at full strength, maybe I would also see these words returning often?

August 5, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Cedric_Castel

In my list, whatever I do and independant of how much I work, the weakness of my words is ever growing. At the moment, 20% are weak, but it will end up being 100% someday, because the growth is slow but steady. I get the impression I get sentences with more basic words all the time. It just makes me mad...

August 5, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Cedric_Castel

when you do a spaced-repetition session, it shows you 15 words. Go to your words list a the end of it, and you will see that it is written that you reviewed just a few of them. The update is inconsistent.

August 5, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/benton.1

How likely do you all think it is that Hebrew will be one of the languages to have a "Words" list and a "Fluency meter" when the course is completed?

November 3, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal

Hi benton.1 ,
the course not having them right now (in beta phase), it'll not have it when Duolingo staff will labeled it "Phase 3". Nothing is changed on the course by staff when the course graduate from beta phase.

November 3, 2016

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