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"Der Name ist jedenfalls sehr alt."

Translation:The name is very old in any case.

January 22, 2013

40 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/az_p

Something to help clear up confusion: "In any case" is definitely the first translation you should think of, because jede- can translate to "any-" and -fall to "case".

All these other possibly 'meanings' aren't so much different meanings as rewording the sentence in English to get something that sounds natural. If you can stick with "in any case" it will be the most direct translation.

The German words for "in case", "a (medical) case", "a (grammatical) case", "a (legal) case" all use fall in some way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SquareFrame

That's the explanation I needed to remember this word. Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

OK, here we have a couple of examples:

"Liebe ist jedenfalls nicht" is translated only as "It is definitely not love."

"Der Name ist jedenfalls sehr alt" is translated only as "The name is at any rate very old," NOT as "The name is definitely very old."

Why not "In any case it is not love" and "The name is definitely very old"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cheeseyfighter

The first example isn't right. You would say, "Es ist jedenfalls nicht Liebe." or "Liebe ist es jedenfalls nicht." I would say it in a situation like, "I don't know what it is, but it's definitely not love." In my opinion "definitely" is too strong here, so I'd go for "Anyway, it's not love." or your suggestion.

You use "jedenfalls" often in sentences, where you don't know exactly what it is, but you are sure about a certain fact, like your second example. You don't know HOW old the name ist, you only know for certain it is very old. I wouldn't use definitely but it also applies and it is not (that) wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

Thank you. I'm wondering how you can tell, though, out of context. In the second, for example, the conversation might be whether the name is German, or French, or Romansch; whether it is a different spelling of another name; whether it was changed when someone crossed a border; but in any case it is very old.

I don't mean to be splitting hairs (is there a German idiom that corresponds to "splitting hairs") but surely there is as much or more room to be ambivalent about the history of a name as there is about whether that warm toasty feeling is love or merely the onset of flu.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cheeseyfighter

It's hard to explain. I'm using "definitely" when I want to point out a fact I'm pretty sure about. Hmm, let's see, you find a purse and show it too me, I could say,

"That's definitely Cindy's!"

or I could say,

"I'm not sure, whose purse it is, in any case it's not mine!"

I would use it in the same way in German.

And yeah, there is a German idiom to "splitting hairs". "Ich möchte keine Haare spalten" or "Ich möchte mich nicht mit diesen Haarspaltereien befassen".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cheeseyfighter

I'm glad I can help! If you want to practice a lil bit writing or talking, just let me know ;)

We can chat over Skype or so, if you like ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

Thank you! Some written conversation would be great. My speaking/listening skills are unfortunately too poor for telephone conversation. I can manage a little face-to-face, on a few topics, with a person who is very patient (just like in my real life ;-) but on the telephone? Still hopeless.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

Thank you! The nuances and idioms are to me the hardest part of navigating a language that is not my own. Your explanations are a big plus.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lakissova

"The name is anyway very old" - not accepted as correct answer. I will report as I think "jedenfalls" is exactly "anyway, in any case"...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rickjmill

I was tempted to put that, but I suspected Duo wouldn't prefer it. It's the most natural way to translate that into American English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michael743744

I wouldn't put 'anyway' in the middle like that. It sounds better at the beginning:

Anyway, the name is very old.

In any case, the name is very old.

Anyhow, the name is very old.

Or-

The name is, in any case, very old.

The name, anyways, is very old. - notice the 's' added to 'anyway' and the commas added. I can't explain why (just going off of years of experience speaking and reading the language), but 'anyway' in the middle by itself doesn't sound right.

Putting a thought, like that, in the middle of a sentence isn't wrong, but additional punctuation needs to be added for written English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CapnDoug

I agree with your main point that "In any case" or "Anyway" should come at the beginning.

However:
“Anyway” is an adverb meaning regardless. Simply put, “anyway” without an S is correct. Always use it without the S.

“Anyways” with the S is considered slang, and is a part of nonstandard, colloquial, or informal English. Furthermore, since “anyway” is an adverb and it is impossible for adverbs to be plural.

Reference: https://www.gingersoftware.com/content/anyway-vs-anyways/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michael743744

Good to know. Thanks for the knowledge that 'anyways' is slang.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FreekVerkerk

"The name is anyway very old" is accepted now. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FreekVerkerk

"The name is any ways very old" was not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

Duolingo seems to have several translations of "jedenfalls," but in any given translation accepts only one of them--and not the same one each time. I'm confused. What am I missing?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VergilioSa

English does allow my word order.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

Sometimes it translates "jedenfalls" as "absolutely" or "definitely," or something along those lines; other times as "in any case"--or something along those lines. I can't figure out why sometimes it chooses one, sometimes the other. Jedenfalls, when it chooses one, it won't accept the other.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cheeseyfighter

Oh, I see. It depends on the content of the sentence. Jedenfalls can mean both, but in the most cases it's something like "in any case" or "anyway"/"anyhow".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SydneyBlakem

I really think that all three translations are correct. In English all three would mean exactly what the German sentence says


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

That's what I thought, but I don't see a logic for why one or the other in the sentences I've seen--nor a reason why it should be "definitely" but not "in any case" when it chooses "definitely."

I'll keep an eye out for some of the others and see if I can pin anything down.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cheeseyfighter

You can write examples to me, if you want. Maybe I can help you. Sometimes even Duolingo isn't right.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HughWarren

'nevertheless' is one translation of 'jedenfalls' that is sometimes accepted, sometimes not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OnkelD

I used nevertheless... it did NOT accept it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

Thank you. I'm planning to go back into this particular set of lessons again, either later today or tomorrow, so I'll see whether I can catalog a few that look odd to me. I know Duolingo sometimes isn't right in English, so I'm beginning to suspect that it sometimes isn't right in German--but I have no way of being sure.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cheeseyfighter

That's the price for free software ;) But as long as the community is strong, it'll work. =)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cheeseyfighter

Depends on how you'd translate it. "Wahr, das!" wouldn't make any sense, you would say "Das ist wahr" oder "Stimmt!"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

True, that. (Would that make any sense, translated to German? ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlbertoArt3

It's not the same "the name is very old anyway?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmiyVats

I tried "the name is absolutely very old" it didn't accept. Is it incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/b3ddobson

I tried "The name is, in any event, very old," and got a big "NEIN" on that one. Seems to me to be correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Romicaa

how about trotzdem?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JCfeGI

I dont understand, 'anyways' is not a word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CapnDoug

It is a word—a nonstandard, colloquial, informal, incorrect word that shouldn't be used although I know several people who use it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VergilioSa

See your own example two below.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/faibhile

I've seen jedenfalls used without the s at end, 'auf jedenfall' for example. What is the reason for the s? Or did i just remember it wrongly?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steve34747

I'd expect one to say "Either way, the name is very old." Though Duo's sentence is not incorrect.

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