"Người đàn ông"
Hit on the head with a frying pan
Lives his life in a garbage can
The greatest man, Person man
Is there any reason you'd add "người" ("person", according to Google) before "đàn ông" ("man")?
No expert, but I'm guessing because it functions as a classifier rather than a full-blown noun here, giving it a definite interpretation. I believe classifiers in Vietnamese can play a similar role to definite articles in English.
I think you might be right. The course translates "cá" as fish and "con cá" as "the fish", and the hint for "con" is "classifier for animal". I'm guessing these modifiers are something like measure words in Chinese.
Similar, I think. I also remember reading recently that the pattern 'classifier + bare noun' has a completely different interpretation in Chinese and Vietnamese. I think in Vietnamese CL + NOUN gives the interpretation 'the NOUN', whereas in Chinese it gives 'a NOUN'. Confusing! I also vaguely remember hearing that this applies only to Mandarin, whereas Cantonese might pattern more with Vietnamese in this area. On even shakier ground there though. Can get references if you want.
"...whereas in Chinese it gives 'a NOUN'" - More or less, although measure words are usually only used when giving a number. It's possible to translate "a/an" with "一 + measure word + noun", but that'a more like "one" than "a/an". Measure words can also work in conjunction with demonstratives (this/that)
But I suspect the concept of groups of the same 'type' of something receiving the same measure word applies to modifiers in Vietnamese (which is what I think you were getting at in your original post).
You guessed correct. If we translate word by word:
Người = person, human.
đàn = group, classification
ông = man
Hi, người means person, human, and is the classifier for human being. The man = người đàn ông / Man = đàn ông
I think it'd be helpful if there was a description of what a classifier is in the notes, since it's a concept completely alien to English speakers. I'm somewhat familiar with the concept because I've studied Chinese and I figured out it's the same as measure words in Chinese from Legatrix's description; but for someone for whom Vietnamese is their first Asian language, "the classifier for human being" doesn't give any hints about what a classifier actually is and how "người" should be used, and it's not an easy concept to figure out on your own.
The notes DO mention "except for classifiers which will be taught later", but that's not much help here (especially if you don't know that "người" is a classifier).
I've googled it and I think this website gives a good explanation: http://www.languagehack.com/2010/09/21/vietnamese-classifiers-lo%E1%BA%A1i-t%E1%BB%AB-a-list/
Hi, thank you for the comment. The hints are temporarily fixed to indicate classifiers such as người. Classifier is quite a vast topic in Vietnamese language, thus we will introduce them slowly throughout the course. You will find more instruction from Lesson Animals 1.
I answered "the man" and it was correct but why is the alternative answer "man"? If the first word is a classifier for human beings, like an article, why is "man" a correct answer?
Thank you for your comment. It's fixed. And "the man" should be the most accurate answer.
Ngươi đàn ông. I typed "a man" and it says perfect. But in the same time, "another correct solution: The man".. Which one is the correct one?
The most accurate translation is the man. In Vietnamese a man is một người đàn ông and sometimes một is omitted. So in this case, "a man" is still a correct answer.
To be more clear when to use the or a/an, please see grammar and notice the difference when "một" or a classifier is present.
So how does this break down? "Người" is the "human/person" classifier, but what about "đàn ông"? Are they separable, and if so what are they individually? The mouseover also lists "grandfather". In what contexts would it mean that?
From the first lesson page:
ARTICLES (A/AN/THE) (FEATURED IN LESSON 4)
In Vietnamese, there are no articles similar to those in English. You use the word một to represent a quantity of “1” and that is all.
For the learning purpose throughout the skill tree, you should follow this pattern of using articles:
- In Vietnamese sentence, if you see the word một, then your English answer should contain a/an. If not, then your English answer should contain the.
- In English sentence, if you see a/an, then your Vietnamese answer should contain một. If you see the instead, then your Vietnamese answer should not have anything before the noun (except for classifiers which will be taught later).
"the man" is wrong. its either man or men and its annoying that the latter isnt accepted even tho thats how viet folks talk
Perhaps the Vietnamese language does not have articles, but English does, and when we translate it into English, we need to consider how it would be said in English.
anyone else having trouble getting the program to realize that I'm typing the correct answer?