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  5. "Tôi ghét con cá này."

"Tôi ghét con này."

Translation:I hate this fish.

April 23, 2016

23 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesTWils

And once again, I can say I hate something, but cannot tell my host I like something. I assume this is because the designers are trying to teach us something I simply do not fathom about tones or diphthongs, but a few useful words would be really quite welcome.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JCMcGee

It's a reasonable point....but DUO teaches us the language....it doesn't teach "conversational Vietnamese", it teaches us the Vietnamese language and being able to speak is only one of 4 main parts of any language. Still, I totally understand as, after 3 or 4 months of learning Portuguese on DUO, I got off the aeroplane and panicked when I realised that I didn't know the word for TOILET!!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesTWils

But after a day or two, you could say "Hello. Do you speak English? Two beers please. Thank you. Good bye." I could say that in every language in my little flag row after a day or two. What I think is going on here is that the designers are thinking of this the way they might a face to face class, which might very well start by teaching the very different phonology, the sound system, of Vietnamese. That isn't going to happen through a computer. I was asking questions about the sounds of Polish, a language I am pretty familiar with, through the end of the lesson tree. I do wish the Vietnamese would give up on listing triphthongs and just try to give us a very basic reading knowledge and some sense of the grammar. That has served me quite well in Turkish and Welsh, which are almost equally exotic to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnAllenR3

Come now, how do you propose Duolingo course languages such as Hebrew or Korean are to convey quickly & directly a useful repertoire of phrases for travelling and such, to your average beginning English speaker? Obviously they can't; we are dealing with entirely novel alphabetical/idiographical systems regarding these, not to mention sentence construction.

It's only because Vietnamese is formally written here in the Roman alphabet -albeit accents galore- that you are possessed of the illusion of possibly being able to learn to speak something practicable out of the gate.

In fact, if one would ignore those seductively familiar Latin squiggles for a moment, one might notice that one is dealing with a phonetical buffet as EXOTIC as the same cuisines offered by its neighbouring countries; China, Cambodia, Thailand etc. And this is exceedingly foreign, beyond that of Turkish, and yes, even that of Welsh, if you can believe it.

So, if you were compelled to visit Vietnam, (no doubt for her beauty) and attempted to "read directly out of a phrasebook" so to speak, you will be in great danger of babbling in tongues incomprehensible for all the natives will be able to discern.

You know, just the other week I was speaking with a friend at church - he's been married to a Vietnamese lady a long time - and he can't yet speak the language much at all still, but he said he knows a chap who spoke marvellously fluent Vietnamese, or so he thought, but when he asked some of his in-laws for their opinion, they rated his friend as low as an uneducated provincial peasent-farmer - his accent was that bad.

I mean maybe you specifically, have the gall, the IQ and the familiarity with IPA etc. to pull off a stunt like this, but Duolingo is made with mere mortals such as myself in mind, and so it doesn't for the most part attempt what you are suggesting. ...Chinese & Russian apparently being exceptions I suppose because of their demand.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alantheazn

Have you gotten through the whole tree? Do you expect to know all the useful Vietnamese phrases after going only 3 levels down the tree? If you're just looking for a survival phrasebook, go to your local bookstore.

IMO, learning how to communicate in ALL ways about a variety of topics (about love, hate, etc) is more important than learning just "survival" or "polite" phrases.

Vietnamese has a very simple grammar in comparison to Polish, Turkish and Welsh, so most of learning Vietnamese involves becoming familiar with its sounds (these few skills) and vocabulary, which you will encounter more of as you go through the tree.

What's the point of only being able to read a language and not know how to (correctly) speak it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PookaGar

What's the point of only being able to read a language and not know how to (correctly) speak it?

It's very common to acquire a language mainly for reading knowledge. I'm learning Vietnamese partly out of interest, partly because I'm working on an academic project involving recording Vietnamese signage; speaking is actually secondary for me in this case. But I think James' (secondary) point is that the course can't teach you how to correctly speak it, for a few different reasons: sound recordings aren't perfect, you can't ask the recording to slow down and repeat itself with an emphasis on the tone, etc. The fact that the course designers haven't created auxiliary material to help with this doesn't improve matters.

To the primary point: aside from the fact that not all local bookstores have Vietnamese books, Duo bills itself as an alternative to phrasebooks which, frankly, get tiresome. I'll be the first to admit that I think it's awesome to learn words like "bee," "tamarind," and "thunder," but it seems strange to introduce these before more basic vocabulary. Most courses DO teach those basic phrases by level 3 of a tree (or thereabouts), because I would hazard most people do want to learn those things early, and well.

Anyway, this is partially why courses start in beta: different people are going to have different language learning strategies and goals for the course, and the designers can use the opportunity to take that into account for improving/further developing the course.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesTWils

Sadly, by this point, I did not have love, or even like. My comparison is, indeed, with other programs, such as Polish, Turkish, and Welsh, which introduced a few basic useful sentences before getting into all of that dreadfully complicated grammar. Clearly, words like "register" and "ward" are included in order to teach phonology, which might make sense in a face to face class. Distinguishing the tones here, is nearly impossible, especially since there has not been a systematic attempt to describe them. Indeed, the existence of the glottal stop in two of the tones was pointed out in a conversation in the comments here, not in tips and notes. Now, it is a good thing to be introduced to vocabulary that might be exotic to some because it is particularly Vietnamese (tamarind might very well be a much more common thing to say than grape, for instance), but exotic words simply to have letters, diphthongs, triphthongs, etc without any sense of how those are actually pronounced, are simply not useful. I would also say the same thing about the use of words like good morning and the various pronouns that are, apparently, entirely uncharacteristic of Vietnamese, but I do understand that the nature of the system may require that something be put into some sort of a slot that requires, for instance, a third person pronoun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dariojmac

when bó, bò, bơ, bỏ, bô, bố, and bồ all mean different things, learning the alphabet is important :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesTWils

Learning the tones is terribly important, indeed fundamental. Thus, there should be a systematic description of the tones in the tips and notes and there should be unit dealing not with the alphabet, but rather with the rising tone, the falling tone, the glottal stop tones (I still have no idea what differentiates them), etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Melarish

Maybe Vietnamese have a different idea of hospitality and want to make sure they're not feeding you something you hate :P (In England you're expected to pretend you love it regardless of whether you do.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tobi502741

Im pretty sure you already learned the word "thích" for liking something in vietnamese :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Woof.

Why? The poor fish did nothing to you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RowanM.1

Yes it did. It bit my bicycle. And I will NEVER forgive it for that!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Grokford

Someone didn't get to see Finding Dory


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/George418878

Anyone notice that ghét sounds kind of like "hate"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Woof.

That's helpful.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zyrada

Well yeah, it keeps biting everything.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NotPhillip

Jokes on you! I love my fish!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Christine406282

Yeah the fish that bites everything


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnCatDubh

―H. P. Lovecraft


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/verenti

To be fair, this fish is an ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤. He keeps biting my stuff.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DannyHethe

I completely agree with opinions given here. Instead of learning words that although teach tones, the course should at this point be teaching more common/practical words and sentences. Its very well done and im learning a lot. But im learning to encompass everything about Vietnamese, reading writing speaking listening and feel emphasis should be on phrases people are excited to have learned and use.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/huy524584

you have lingots jamesT. WILSON

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