Wouldn't turning this sentence around (You are the woman) make more sense? It is counted as wrong.
I understand that. You actually make my point, because what I meant was that word order of the English translation of the sentence (''The woman is you''), makes no sense. No one would say it like that in English. So, to make it more clear, would someone actually say "Người phụ nữ là bạn" in Vietnam, instead of ''Ban la nguoi phu nu''?
In my experience, you're right--no one would say the original sentence. Someone might say "Nguoi phu nu la mot ban" (the woman is a friend) or maybe "ban cua em la nguoi phu nu" (my friend is a woman). "Ban la nguoi phu nu" is also grammatically correct.
Just to play devils advocate: "I know the woman who killed our suspect...(point finger at the woman)... the woman is you!" I guess that's not common.
Please distinguish between "bạn" ("you" - a personal pronoun" with "(người) bạn" ("friend" - a noun). The two are homophones. They are pronounced exactly the same but have different meanings. You can also look up my other comment to get a clearer idea about OP's question.
I'm Vietnamese, and I can confirm that "The woman is you" and "Người phữ nữ là bạn" would both be really weird to say, but the main reasons for Duolingo choosing to teach like this while regularly switching it around is to make sure we genuinely know what each word means. Ex: we memorize the general look of a certain phrase and know what it should translate to, but when the time comes, we can't spell it because we don't know what it means.
would it be more used? I am not that sure, because obviously the person whom we are talking to knows they're a woman, well normally. is it that hard to imagine a context in which "the woman is you" would be used? the speaker can simply be pointing at a picture and say "oh [that] woman is you!"
How does Người phụ nữ break down? Does Người mean person? Does phụ nữ mean female?
EXACTLY! I wrote to to Duolingo and I think this needs to be explained before we can learn it more proficiently.
and to think that this would be evenly remotely similiar to Chinese :) I am still a stupid American
Some rules of Vietnamese grammar and vocabulary do look a bit like those of Chinese. The rest are a different story.
(P.S: You don't need to be American to become stupid. Just kidding! Don't ever say that again. Everyone's a gem.)
It is some kind of an article, it precedes a noun in order to demonstrate a physical/non-physical appearance or quantity of that noun (taken from Tips And Notes).
That woman — Phụ nữ đó or Phụ nữ kia.
It's not an article but a classifier :) Remember that Vietnamese doesn't have articles.
Edited - Sorry, I meant "này"/"đây" and "đó"/"ấy"/"kia" in Vietnamese serve the same function just as "the", "this" and "that" in English. They are determiners.
Just "this" and "that", not "the". In Vietnamese, we don't have the corresponding word for "the" because Vietnamese doesn't have any articles.
I understand your point. But you have to know that:
1. It's not necessary to use "đó/ấy" to make the phrase much more clearer. In almost case, we just need to say "người phụ nữ" for "the woman" and people still know who that woman is.
2. "Đó" and "ấy" (like English determiner "that") also contain the implication for the position (based on the distance from something) of the noun it modifies while "the" doesn't. For example: Người phụ nữ đó chạy can also imply that the woman you are talking about is staying far from you. How will you translate it into English? "That woman runs" or "The woman runs".
3. This course is created for foreigners to learn Vietnamese. So it'll be difficult for them if we bring much complicated information about Vietnamese grammar. Words in English and Vietnamese should be corresponding with each other.
Anyway, thank you for your opinion. We will note it for the next skill tree version.
Thanks. I'm also glad to see that there are many native speakers here to help people learn our language. Your works are estimable.
Fair enough. Should there be clearer explanations at the beginning of this level, many learners wouldn't raise questions like these ones. You guys are doing well with this project anyway. Cheers! ; )
Yep. I agree that Vietnamese doesn't have what are called articles as those of English. What I meant above is that we should translate "The woman" as "Người phụ nữ đó/ấy". Don't just omit "đó/ấy" because they play an important role in making the phrase much more clearer. They are used to show that you are talking about a particular woman that has already been mentioned, is already known about, or is the only one. Without "đó/ấy", she can be any other woman. I hope you understand my point.
Vâng. Tôi đồng ý với phát biểu rằng Tiếng Việt không có mạo từ như trong Tiếng Anh. Ý của tôi ở bình luận trước đó là ta nên dịch "The woman" thành "Người phụ nữ đó/ấy". Ta không nên lược bỏ "đó/ấy" vì chúng đóng vai trò rất quan trọng trong việc làm cho cụm từ rõ nghĩa hơn. Chúng được dùng để chỉ ra rằng ta đang nói về một người phụ nữ cụ thể mà cô ấy đã được nhắc đến trước đó, đã được biết rõ, hoặc là người duy nhất. Néu không có "đó/ấy", cô ta có thể là bất kỳ người phụ nữ nào khác. Hy vọng bạn hiểu ý tôi.
i totally don't get this. why not start with individual words like with SPANISH. This is hard to use and most likely, won't work
Because Vietnamese isn't like Spanish. Most of words in Vietnamese are compound words and Vietnamese has classifers, which Spanish doesn't have. So if we teach you each individual word, how can you know the meaning of the compound word which is formed when they stand together?
Well, i live in Vietnam. I learn individual words. And, then I put ideas together. The way you throw out the words.....I have not idea how to learn with this system. You need to explain this information and somehow make it more user friendly. I am sorry. I know Vietnamese is hard. I teach English to Vietnamese students. And, it is very difficult to translate either way because of the differences. Perhaps the beginning of this program should have an explanation of the differences between this type of language and a latin based language. Vietnamese was originally character based. This is a big issue. I don't mean to be so critical but, it is hard.
Erin300410, would you mind listing some of the differences between vietnamese and a latin based languages? Any insight you have from gained from teaching would be appreciated.
Off the top of my head, here are some big ones: - Pronouns in Vietnamese depend on who you are relative to the person you're talking to, primarily in terms of age but also in terms of status. (As an aside, the way pronouns are dealt with in the duolingo lessons really bugs me. It is taking away so much of the richness.) - Verbs are not conjugated. There are some helper words like "se," but Vietnamese doesn't have tense in the same way romance languages do. - Nouns don't take a plural. - Tone indicates the word rather than the mood of the sentence (English for example tends to go up at the end of a sentence to indicate a question; can't do that in Vietnamese). - Words often occur in pairs that are not separable (like gia dinh for family). - Adjectives follow the nouns they modify. - Vietnamese uses classifiers, which are like measure words in Chinese--they put things into categories. This is what "nguoi" is doing in the sentence under discussion here. The word serves a grammatical purpose in Vietnamese but it doesn't have a one-to-one translation into English.
There are probably some more things, but that's what sticks out to me as a long-time learner of Vietnamese.
Most of them are right, but this: "Tone indicates the word rather than the mood of the sentence (English for example tends to go up at the end of a sentence to indicate a question; can't do that in Vietnamese)."
Maybe you are confused between tones and the intonation. Tones occur on individual word while the intonation occurs along the sentence. And sentences in Vietnamese do have the intonations like English though its effect is faint comparing to the tones. Sometimes, the intonation will affect the tones of some words in the sentence (usually last words), make it a little bit higher or lower. For example: this sentence.
LOL. Our native language is a bit of everything. At least, we don't have to write (or perhaps draw) characters like in Chinese or conjugate verbs, nouns, adjectives etc. based on their genders like in Latin languages.
Spanish isn't Vietnamese and Vietnamese isn't Spanish. The rules are different and you just have to adjust to them. It's not hard, you're just not familiar with the rules.
Vietnamese doesn't work that way. Most of thsi language is formed with compound words, and learning individual pieces will not make sense, and some words have no translation without the others. Ex: "dog" in vietnamese is "con chó". If you say chó to someone in Vietnam, you are essentially calling them the b-word, so using the word con that is attached will provide much better clarification and not get you beat up.
all depend on in which context you say it, how you say it. you are not insulting anyone by saying "tôi thích chó".
Alright, so I don't quite understand this: Does the "nguòi" make it pointed towards a particular person? In other words, would "Phu nu là ban" be "She is you" vs. "Nguòi phu nu là ban" being "The woman is you"?
"She is you" -> "Cô ấy là bạn" - no more no less. Please have a look at my other comments to have a better idea about this problematic topic for beginners.
I'm confused: I typed the correct translation, yet they corrected me with the same answer. Is there an explanation for this error?
I have ended english and I am at 40% in Gẻman, however vietnamese makes me feel stupid.
Well, Vietnamese may seem difficult at first but when you get used to it, it is a very easy-to-speak language. Feel free to ask any questions :)
So classifiers are taxonomy I think. Like human man or human woman ? Is there animal man and animal woman?
"con" is the most common classifier for animals. e.g:
- CON mèo (cat);
- 1 CON gà (a/one chicken);
- 3 CON ếch (3 frogs);
- 10 CON ong (10 bees), etc.
"Animal man and animal woman" ??? Do you mean "male animal and female animal". We add an adjective which defines the gender of an animal right after the word for that animal.
The most common adjectives defining animal genders are:
- đực/trống (male)
- cái/mái (female)
- gấu ĐỰC (MALE bear); gấu CÁI (FEMALE bear)
- gà TRỐNG (rooster); gà MÁI (hen)
I did the same. I thought i spoke Vietnamese and English fluently. I guess I was wrong.
americans learn vietnamese,ironic no? ( no,i not from usa, i am from brazil,and no,we don't speak spanish,we speak portuguese) bye