I understand that. You actually make my point, because what I meant was that word order of the English translation of the sentence (''The woman is you''), makes no sense. No one would say it like that in English. So, to make it more clear, would someone actually say "Người phụ nữ là bạn" in Vietnam, instead of ''Ban la nguoi phu nu''?
I'm Vietnamese, and I can confirm that "The woman is you" and "Người phữ nữ là bạn" would both be really weird to say, but the main reasons for Duolingo choosing to teach like this while regularly switching it around is to make sure we genuinely know what each word means. Ex: we memorize the general look of a certain phrase and know what it should translate to, but when the time comes, we can't spell it because we don't know what it means.
I think this example exists to show you that there is no difference between pronouns if they are the subject of the sentence or if they are the object of the sentence. I see that you're learning French, so maybe me explaining it with French examples would make more sense. If you were to say "La femme est toi" you would see that there are distinct verb conjugation and object pronoun declensions. Now if we were to flip it, "Tu es la femme", you see that there is a difference between the form tu/toi takes and the conjugation être takes. Yes, it all sounds weird regardless, but I think it's to illustrate that pronouns do not change regardless of where they occur in the sentence.
No. First, that wouldn't be considered a fact. And just saying "the woman is you" is way out of nowhere. There would need to be another sentence befor it, for that to even make sense. " I've determined two things about the killer. The killer is a woman, and that (not the) woman is you."
would it be more used? I am not that sure, because obviously the person whom we are talking to knows they're a woman, well normally. is it that hard to imagine a context in which "the woman is you" would be used? the speaker can simply be pointing at a picture and say "oh [that] woman is you!"
No man, YOU are saying that now when talking about what father brown said. "...that the woman is you." Puting "that" in front of "the" when talking about what was said IN THE PAST is the only way that sentence works. But father brown would NOT say the sentence "the woman is you." unless he was new to English or something. Otherwise he would say "you are the woman." or "that woman is you."
I understand your point. But you have to know that:
1. It's not necessary to use "đó/ấy" to make the phrase much more clearer. In almost case, we just need to say "người phụ nữ" for "the woman" and people still know who that woman is.
2. "Đó" and "ấy" (like English determiner "that") also contain the implication for the position (based on the distance from something) of the noun it modifies while "the" doesn't. For example: Người phụ nữ đó chạy can also imply that the woman you are talking about is staying far from you. How will you translate it into English? "That woman runs" or "The woman runs".
3. This course is created for foreigners to learn Vietnamese. So it'll be difficult for them if we bring much complicated information about Vietnamese grammar. Words in English and Vietnamese should be corresponding with each other.
Anyway, thank you for your opinion. We will note it for the next skill tree version.
Yep. I agree that Vietnamese doesn't have what are called articles as those of English. What I meant above is that we should translate "The woman" as "Người phụ nữ đó/ấy". Don't just omit "đó/ấy" because they play an important role in making the phrase much more clearer. They are used to show that you are talking about a particular woman that has already been mentioned, is already known about, or is the only one. Without "đó/ấy", she can be any other woman. I hope you understand my point.
Vâng. Tôi đồng ý với phát biểu rằng Tiếng Việt không có mạo từ như trong Tiếng Anh. Ý của tôi ở bình luận trước đó là ta nên dịch "The woman" thành "Người phụ nữ đó/ấy". Ta không nên lược bỏ "đó/ấy" vì chúng đóng vai trò rất quan trọng trong việc làm cho cụm từ rõ nghĩa hơn. Chúng được dùng để chỉ ra rằng ta đang nói về một người phụ nữ cụ thể mà cô ấy đã được nhắc đến trước đó, đã được biết rõ, hoặc là người duy nhất. Néu không có "đó/ấy", cô ta có thể là bất kỳ người phụ nữ nào khác. Hy vọng bạn hiểu ý tôi.
Does Vietnamese has to have the article in front if the noun? Or I got the answer wrong because I was filling in English and I did not put the article which was violated the English grammar? I am curious, it's likely most language in Asia we usually do not put 'the' with any noun. If we would like to point out something specifically, for example, in Chinese we use '那個' ( that ) or '這個' ( this ). I am from Taiwan, my mother tongue is Chinese.
no, VNmese doesn't have articles. people, mostly European-language speakers, have a hard translating because they often try to look for articles where there aren't. the very first contributors had to give some equivalents for people to understand and be satisfied: a classifier becomes the definite article and "một" the indefinite article. on the other hand, the English translation should follow its own grammar, and have articles when needed.
As someone trying to learn the Vietnamese language for the first time, none of this makes clear sense.
This appears to be a course lesson for someone who is already familiar with the language to some degree... unless you are a linguistic expert or savant? Certainly not for beginners.
Because Vietnamese isn't like Spanish. Most of words in Vietnamese are compound words and Vietnamese has classifers, which Spanish doesn't have. So if we teach you each individual word, how can you know the meaning of the compound word which is formed when they stand together?
Well, i live in Vietnam. I learn individual words. And, then I put ideas together. The way you throw out the words.....I have not idea how to learn with this system. You need to explain this information and somehow make it more user friendly. I am sorry. I know Vietnamese is hard. I teach English to Vietnamese students. And, it is very difficult to translate either way because of the differences. Perhaps the beginning of this program should have an explanation of the differences between this type of language and a latin based language. Vietnamese was originally character based. This is a big issue. I don't mean to be so critical but, it is hard.
Off the top of my head, here are some big ones: - Pronouns in Vietnamese depend on who you are relative to the person you're talking to, primarily in terms of age but also in terms of status. (As an aside, the way pronouns are dealt with in the duolingo lessons really bugs me. It is taking away so much of the richness.) - Verbs are not conjugated. There are some helper words like "se," but Vietnamese doesn't have tense in the same way romance languages do. - Nouns don't take a plural. - Tone indicates the word rather than the mood of the sentence (English for example tends to go up at the end of a sentence to indicate a question; can't do that in Vietnamese). - Words often occur in pairs that are not separable (like gia dinh for family). - Adjectives follow the nouns they modify. - Vietnamese uses classifiers, which are like measure words in Chinese--they put things into categories. This is what "nguoi" is doing in the sentence under discussion here. The word serves a grammatical purpose in Vietnamese but it doesn't have a one-to-one translation into English.
There are probably some more things, but that's what sticks out to me as a long-time learner of Vietnamese.
Most of them are right, but this: "Tone indicates the word rather than the mood of the sentence (English for example tends to go up at the end of a sentence to indicate a question; can't do that in Vietnamese)."
Maybe you are confused between tones and the intonation. Tones occur on individual word while the intonation occurs along the sentence. And sentences in Vietnamese do have the intonations like English though its effect is faint comparing to the tones. Sometimes, the intonation will affect the tones of some words in the sentence (usually last words), make it a little bit higher or lower. For example: this sentence.
Vietnamese doesn't work that way. Most of thsi language is formed with compound words, and learning individual pieces will not make sense, and some words have no translation without the others. Ex: "dog" in vietnamese is "con chó". If you say chó to someone in Vietnam, you are essentially calling them the b-word, so using the word con that is attached will provide much better clarification and not get you beat up.
Because they're completely different languages. Most European languages do not require a thing called classifiers, which Vietnamese requires. You cannot learn them without the context of examples and be learning the language proficiently, meaning how to actually say specific words at appropriate times without learning the context alongside the vocabulary introduction.
"con" is the most common classifier for animals. e.g:
- CON mèo (cat);
- 1 CON gà (a/one chicken);
- 3 CON ếch (3 frogs);
- 10 CON ong (10 bees), etc.
"Animal man and animal woman" ??? Do you mean "male animal and female animal". We add an adjective which defines the gender of an animal right after the word for that animal.
The most common adjectives defining animal genders are:
- đực/trống (male)
- cái/mái (female)
- gấu ĐỰC (MALE bear); gấu CÁI (FEMALE bear)
- gà TRỐNG (rooster); gà MÁI (hen)