"Nowi ludzie lubią tego psa."

Translation:The new people like this dog.

April 26, 2016

40 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vero15_87

When can I use "tego"???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Pronoun "tego"

masculine genitive singular of "ten"

neuter genitive singular of "to"

animate masculine accusative singular of "ten"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexeyPshek

when can i use "tego" as "that"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Frankly, probably always when the English sentence had "that". It's a matter of 'closeness'. Polish tego/tego/tamtego is like English this/that/that. So unless it's "that one over there", 'tego' is more probable. Although it won't be the default answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexeyPshek

it is hard to understand so far. i will use "tego" as "this" for a while. thx anyway.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexeyPshek

by the way, "that" is not accepted in this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Langenth

I understand what the three cases: Nominative, accusative and instrumental are, but I don't know what the "genetive case" is!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Genitive. Well, I can suggest you to look here for posts about cases: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/16296174

Although with Genitive, there is one great post exclusively on that case: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/16569658


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexeyPshek

and yet, what is the difference between "Tak, widzimy tego psa." = "Yes, we see this/that dog." and "Nowi ludzie widzą tego psa." = "The new people like this dog."(only this, not that)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

It's only an oversight that 'that' hasn't worked here. Added now.

But yes, it's probably easiest to use the most direct translations: tego = this and tamtego = that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Blue099

So in this case it's the animate masculine accusative, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

"Tego psa"? Yes, that's right.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lyde02

This just made me cry xD


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rustam.klekit

Why "New people love this dog" is wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_ginzburg

Because "love" would be "kochą"; "lubią" means like.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"kochają", actually :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Holzhaendler

So "ten pies" turns into "tego psa"? Both words get the accusative case?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ewka371733

Like dog love fruit. Nie zabardzo sie z tym zgadzam my lubimy jedzenie i lubimy psy


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HappaHappa

In my opionion the translation should be: the new people like that (not the) dog


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

If you have a form of "ten" in Polish, actually all three ([this/that/the]) work.

Why?

Well, 'this' is the direct translation. 'that' works, because 'that' is used a lot more often in English than its counterpart "tamten" in Polish. So in fact this/that/that = ten/ten/tamten.

Finally, why "the"? In fact often in English when you have "the dog", what you mean is almost the same as "this dog" and it would make a lot of sense to translate it into Polish as 'tego psa'.

But the main answer is always the direct equivalent, so here "this".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Yeah, the sound of "psa" is terrible.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Luisa640365

Hahaha yes i was like whaat? ps-a???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BaciLacsi

przybyli z Seulu ...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/artem255925

I found kinda bug in a polish-to-english translation exercise, I guess. First I had written "New people like that dog". Of course the system marked it wrong, but it underlined "people", not "like". So I was trying to check what was wrong with the "people" still typing the wrong word untill I actually saw where real mistake was


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

It's rather a bug in the whole grading algorithm, which has problems understanding what the mistake is :/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Luna0609

What is considered ''animated'' ?

  1. All male animals ? (Pies, słoń, ... ) or animals with a ''masculine'' name ? What about mysz ?

  2. All male humans (pan, mężczyzna, brat, ...)? Do we consider babies in it ? (Some languages classify children under 2yo as objects)

  3. Plants ? Is a tree animated ?

  4. What about fairytale characters : ghosts, wizards, ... ? ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Well, the thing about "animate" is that it only matters in Accusative and only for masculine nouns. So no one will tell you that "kobieta" (a woman) is not an animate noun - it just doesn't matter that it is. So when talking about animate, we just automatically only discuss masculine.

  1. So yes, it would be 'all male animals'. "mysz" is grammatically feminine even though it looks like a masculine noun.

  2. Yes, all male humans. The words "dziecko" (a child) and "niemowlę" (a baby) are neuter, so their animacy doesn't affect anything.

  3. The word for a tree is "drzewo", which is also neuter. Technically, plants aren't considered animate, but for many of them people actually do use an animate form. You probably read that fruits and vegetables are usually considered 'grammatically animate' (they are used in sentences in a way reserved for animate nouns). I guess many flowers can also go into this group. You probably just need to observe how native speakers use the Accusative form here.

  4. If they're alive, then sure, they're animate.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Luna0609

Thanks a lot for all those info.

Nevertheless, you mention that the problem with animated only exist in Accusative, and with nouns only. So I'm confused ...

What about possessives adjectives ? 1. It is for both Accusative singular and plural right ? Is this correct ? Mam mojego psa. Mam mój but. Mam moich psy. Mam moje buty.

  1. What about Nominative plural ? Is this correct : To są moi pies. To są moje kaczki.

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Ah, I wrote 'nouns only' which was a simplification - as adjectives and pronouns have to match the noun, then yes, they are also affected.

"Mam mojego psa" - yes. "Mam mój but" - technically yes, although frankly this also seems to me like one of those illogical animate exceptions, so I'd be likely to say "mojego buta". So to use one that no Polish person would consider animate - "Mam mój stół" (I have my table).

"Mam moich psy" - no. The animate distinction only matters in masculine singular, it doesn't transfer to plural. It has to be "Mam moje psy". And even if that distinction mattered in plural, that would be "moich psów" - "moich psy" don't match each other grammatically. "Mam moje buty" - yes.

Nominative plural: "To są moje kaczki" - yes. "To są moi pies" - no. Firstly, "pies" is singular, plural is "psy". Secondly, "moi" is 'masculine personal plural' - the noun "dog" is masculine, true, but it doesn't describe a person. So it also has to be "moje" like with the ducks. A correct usage of "moi" would be e.g. "To są moi bracia" (These are my brothers).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Luna0609

THANK YOU for that very detailed answer !! :)

I think I understand the reason of my confusion ... I assimilate ''animate (~alive)'' with ''human ~ personal''. If I understand well, these 2 are 2 different categories. - ''Human'' can be considered as ''animate'' sometimes (widzę mojego brata i mojego psa) - But ''animate'' can not be considered as human (to są moi bracia i moje psy).

And we refer to the ''animate'' category only when there is ACCUSATIVE + SINGULAR + MASCULINE involved all together. Else (for other cases, other genders or when Accusative but plural) we refer to the ''human'' or ''not human'' category.

Right ? :/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Yes, exactly, those are separate. So "animate" is only for masculine singular Accusative as you stated, and "personal" only matters in plural.

"human" vs "not human" will work in most situations, but actually any sentient aliens in science-fiction or other sentient races in fantasy will also fall in this category.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ManeaAndre10

I have a question, why is the accusative form used here . I tought accusative is used only when we don t have a noun/pronoun a the beginning so we can have the phrase focused around the object. Here we have "The new people". I am still not fully understanding the accusative case


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

The majority of sentences will have a noun or a pronoun at the beginning, most sentences need some grammatical subject...

Accusative is for the direct object of the sentence. In a simple sentence like "I have a dog", "I" is the subject, "have" is the verb, and "a dog" is the direct object. Same happens here, "this dog" is the direct object.

Some Polish verbs take a direct object in Genitive instead, you need to memorize those.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mirotnev

Why is it genitive?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

It's accusative.

For singular masculine animate nouns, both forms are identical.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/r34gan

The new guys love this dog?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

love =/= like.

Your sentence says "kochają". Or "uwielbiają".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/r34gan

Well, my brain was definitely tired. Either I did put love mistakingly but would "guys" be accepted instead of people? That's what I thought failed me on.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

It wasn't accepted so far, but Alik just talked me into adding it here, "the new guys" is quite a common phrasing.

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