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  5. "У нас нет синих тарелок."

"У нас нет синих тарелок."

Translation:We do not have blue plates.

April 28, 2016

29 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeMotto

Does ий always become их in genitive plural?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/R_Andersson

Yes, just like -ый always become -ых in genitive plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/an_alias

Assuming my charts are right, it does seem that way for adjectives.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nahuatl1939

i need to know something. please. i don't see the gramatical reason of a genitive until now. genitive being the case of possession.,where iis the possessor or the possessed here ? how do Russians think in these particular cases ? thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndreasWitnstein

The word ‘нет’ triggers the negative genitive in ‘си́них таре́лок’ here, indicating a lack of blue plates.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nahuatl1939

yes, you´are correct of course. just after posting my first comment i realized this was NOT the good exemple ! it is with the rest of the lesson that I have problems identifying the reason of the genitive. I am very good at grammar with languages like German and Russian because I have studied Latin during the 7 compulsory years of classical studies and it is a language with "declinaisons" " Deklinationen in German" ¨ more similar to Russian than to German because it doesn´t have articles either and it has also 6 cases. I will have to go back to this genitiv lesson to really understand the system or, better said,to understand how the Russian mind works in this respect. Many thanks for youir answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mereeam

Maybe it helps to use a super-literal translation: at us none of the blue plates

Нет is not "not", it translates to "none"! "of the blue plates" = genitive.

Hope that helps


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nahuatl1939

thanks. yes, it helps.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrapiCringe

What's the difference between сины and голубой( or голубый) ? It seems both mean something in kind of blue, but at firs I thought сины is gray and голубый is blue. But when I think more голубs are usually gray. XD


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/an_alias

Both are blue. Синии is a darker shade than голубой. (Also, I think голубой is slang for "gay")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dirckk

In case anyone is interested, Russian is one of a few languages to recognize 12 basic color terms, while English currently has 11:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_term#Basic_color_terms


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dirckk

Note that these are "basic" in that we don't describe them as modifications of other colors: English speakers would find it odd if you described pink as light-red, despite that being the perspective of many language-cultures, and that being what it objectively is.

Same goes for Russian and its "two words for" blue. Though I wonder if any Russians can chime in on whether they find our conflation of the two color categories as odd.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kundoo

I wonder if any Russians can chime in on whether they find our conflation of the two color categories as odd.

Considering that English is mandatory in Russian schools and names of the basic colors are one of the first things being taught, most Russians, even those who never moved past the basics of the language, are aware of this fact since childhood so we don't find it odd as much as just different :) Kids do find it a bit surprising that English has one word for two colors, but they usually quickly accept it and move on.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nahuatl1939

-Thanks, of course I am interested. Spanish has 12 also ( two different words for BLUE . AZUL = BLUE and CELESTE = light/sky blue) whilst my language ( French) must use TWO words to differentiate between these 2 blue colors : BLEU and BLEU CIEL. I am just wondering what to do with MAUVE and LIL.A and VIOLET. maybe they are considered as variants of POURPRE ( PURPLE in English) French has the same basic 11 like English. But French and Spanish have two different words for BLACK . French has NOIR and JAIS Spanish has ❤❤❤❤❤ and AZABACHE. JAIS AND AZABACHE correspond to a very very DEEP BLACK COLOR. In Spanish it is used commonly for the women's black hair ( cabello azabache). In French it was used for the color of the black eyes when they are blacker than black. ( des yeux de jais) but I think it is not used anymore.I lost contact with my language because I live in South America since 1992. I do speak French everyday with a friend but we have been cut from the evolution of our language since over 26 years now. Our mother tongue became Spanish which i personally speak since the age of 18. I will be 78 next december.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mereeam

голубой is light blue


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/turtelian

we dont have a blue plates

realy ? are you ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ kiding ?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

There are two errors in your sentence:
"a" is singular, "plates" is plural
"don't" not "dont"

Also, "really" not "realy" and "kidding" not "kiding"

The spelling mistakes would have been noticed by an English spell-checker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chsemyonova

Is it safe to infer that, with "нет", the word "any" could be inserted? I.e., "We do not have any blue plates," "We do not have any knives," etc.?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

I think it depends on the context of the Russian. Genitive nouns can be translated sometimes as "some [noun]" (I recall using genitive in the positive to ask for "some water" in a previous exercise - я хочу воды rather than Accusative воду), and when you negate that, you get "not any [noun]" - but adopting a general rule about нет and "any" doesn't allow for other uses of нет. So, I think that if the positive statement makes sense if you translate the word with "some" in front of it, then "not any" would make sense using нет.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AaronDandr

Why "we don't have any blue plate" is wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chsemyonova

It would need to be “blue plates;” «синих тарелок» is plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

It's my understanding that синих is genitive plural because it modifies тарелок, and тарелок is genitive because of нет and is plural simply because the sentence contemplates the absence of more than one plate - but we're considering the existence of numerous plates, we simply don't have them - they exist somewhere, if only in the imagination.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steve448292

Is there a set of rules, a pattern or something that tells which floating vowel to use for consonant clusters eg тарелок v's чашек. Thanks in advance for any insight


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chsemyonova

I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the preceding vowel. Hard vowels will require «е», soft vowels require «о». Here are a few examples:

тарелка --> тарелок
вилка --> вилок
девочка --> девочек
ручка --> ручек
чашка --> чашек

Hard vowels: а, о, у, э, ы
Soft vowels: я, ё, ю, е, и


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steve448292

Thanks chse )))) I only looked at the consonants silly me, I should have realised that things are that little bit more complicated (wonderfully so) in Russian ))) Thanks again )))


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc
Mod
  • 144

Nay, it really depends on the consonants. Л will use О while any palatalised consonant will trigger Е, and these include ш, ж, ц. They are "hard" now but were initially palatalised (which affects the spelling conventions to this day):

  • тарелка → тарелок, полка → полок
  • порка → порок, топка → топок
  • печка → печек, чашка → чашек
  • электричка → электричек, матрёшка → матрёшек
  • койка → коек, лейка → леек, эвенкийка → эвенкиек
  • краска → красок, доска → досок, записка → записок

The only exception I can come up with is кишка→кишок (the word is endings-stressed, so it should be шо, not ше).

A Reverse Dictionary is a good way to look up examples. Just find the combination you want at the end (e.g. , -пка ) and click on a few nouns that match.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steve448292

Thanks again Shady ................................................ you really are gold ))))))


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/susanashe

It should be we do not have any blue plates. Without the 'any' the sentence sounds brusque and rude. As if blue plates were somehow inferior or ugly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/abcdefghdumbo

Синие тарелки красивые, но коричневые прослужат дольше...

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