Translation:If you do not have it, then where is the bag?
Is it wrong to say, "If you don't have it there, then where is the bag?"? I thought 'ce' meant 'there'?
Apparently, "ce" means just about anything depending on context. Gander through this article for a little help: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1883864
Me too. I think the answer is "Se tu non lo hai, allora dov'è la borsa" . Please somebody help us!!
The use of "ce" is idiomatic, used in spoken Italian with "avere" meaning to have/possess. It becomes "ce" not "ci", in this sentence because it is used with another pronoun, "la" (la borsa). Also, because we are talking about "la borsa" instead of saying "se tu non la hai", it becomes, "l'hai". That's how we arrive at: "Se tu non ce l'hai, dov'è la borsa?" Your sentence is not wrong, apart from having to say "l'hai" instead of "lo hai" but the use of "ce" makes it more idiomatic, colloquial, more used in spoken Italian.
What would be wrong with "se tu non l'hai"? It's the first time I see the ce appearing.
How does "averci" come into play with this sentence? What does it mean? Does "Se tu non l'hai" not make sense?
"Se tu non l'hai" is fine in writing but people don't tend to say this, probably because leaving out the 'ce' makes the sound too brief. So I believe the 'ce' adds clarity to the sound. Similar thing happens in English we don't say "I've it" we say "I've got it" - We use the sentence with "got" probably because "I have it" when abbreviated is too short. In italian leaving out the "ce" might also confuse it with "là (there)" in the case of "l'ha".
Ok i see what your asking: "avere" is the infinite conjugation of "hai" As shown here. http://www.wordreference.com/conj/ItVerbs.aspx?v=avere
averci means "avere" + "ci" written here as "hai" and "ce" respectively.
Yes, and this is the case where 'ce' has no more meaning than to accentuate 'avere' .. ce adds no meaning to the English translation. This was explained well in a discussion on a similar sentence.
I think of it as being vaguely like "this here". As in "I've got this here bag." Not because that's really how to translate it (it is surely not) but to show that English (at least in some dialects) also inserts words that add little or nothing.
This is really interesting because my Italian grandfather is constantly saying "that there..." "Hand me that there bag"
"I've got this here bag master"
It sounds like salve language from 'The Roots'.
For anyone interested in this topic, search for "Demonstrative-Reinforcer Constructions".
Italian does something very similar to "this here" and "that there" in structures such as:
"Questo libro qui." (This book here.)
"Ho incontrato quel tipo lì." (I have met that guy there).
Since "if you do not have it there, then where is the bag?" is incorrect here, how would you say it?
For example, I call a friend on the telephone and she tells me it is not there. I say to her, thinking out loud, "if you do not have it there, then where is the bag?
"If you don't have it, then where's the bag?"
Not accepted. Native English speaker here, all I did was add contractions.