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  5. "Nie mogę napisać tego za cie…

"Nie mogę napisać tego za ciebie."

Translation:I cannot write this instead of you.

May 4, 2016

45 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoannKowalski

Is this something that a parent would say to a child doing homework?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Sure, why not. About an essay.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlfredaMen1

Why wouldn't it be dla ciebie? Why is it za ciebie?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/immery

"za ciebie" means "instead of you"

dla ciebie - would be "because you asked me to" "because you need it" etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

Weird English here. "I cannot write this instead of you writing it" would be more normal, but even more convoluted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Well, added, why not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryAshwood

Why isn't it "I must not"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

That would be a different verb: "muszę" as opposed to "mogę". These two could be similar in meaning, but can still imply different things.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanKLinde

No, Jerry, you're mistaken here. "I must not" is indeed a possible translation of "nie mogę", while "nie muszę" means "I don't have to".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Augustine2017

Usually I type instead of using the word bank but decided to try tapping instead of typing to give myself a chance to get used to the new verb forms.
An interesting thing here is that "instead of you" is not offered in the word bank, only "for you". I thought nothing of that, since "for you" is exactly what I would say in English in this context. It was marked wrong.
Also, "instead" is not offered as a translation of "za" in Wiktionary.
However, I understand that the important thing here is that I know that in Polish it is "za ciebie". :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

I've restricted myself to typing, otherwise I would never learn how to spell words like "potrzebuję", "mężczyzna" and "dziewczynka"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Augustine2017

I agree. Typing is absolutely the way to go. I have been working on Polish for over a year now and have always restricted myself to typing. Then when I got to past perfective, it seemed like to much too soon, so I decided to stop moving forward in the tree and just review verb forms. Using the word bank during my review of the perfective allowed me to concentrate more on the verbs and less on the pronoun forms, for example.

Funny you should mention those particular words. I remember my very first polish lessons when "mężczyzna", "dziewczynka" and "ciasteczka" seemed so daunting, and now it feels quite natural to use them and spell them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlfredaMen1

Oh, ok. I understand now, I think. Alfreda


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/King2E4

Why is "zamiast" not used for "instead of"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Okcydent

Here „Zamiast” would also refer to pisać.
Nie mogę napisać tego zamiast ciebie. Would be understood like: Nie mogę napisać tego zamiast (napisać) ciebie. Hm. It's something like this: I cannot change the thing I write from you to this.

Other examples:

Wybieram ją zamiast ciebie = I choose her instead of you.
Wybieram ją za ciebie = I choose her and give you away. Alternatively: I choose her, but I's you who originally should choose.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/King2E4

Thank you. So, if I decide, it's "zamiast", yes? If the other person decides, it's "za". Is that right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Okcydent

Ehm, no. I fell like a bad teacher right now. I'll try one more time:

zamiast = „in place of”, „instead of”.

za = „to relieve sb of sth”,


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/King2E4

Ahh, now I understand it. Don't feel like a bad teacher. It's just a misunderstanding.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duolingouser621

Why is this perfective? It doesn't sound completed and there's no guarantee it ever will be...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Well, but if you want someone to write this essay that you're supposed to hand in tomorrow, you would want it to be written as a whole, not just started.

"Nie mogę pisać tego za ciebie" would sound like "I cannot write your weekly column in the New York Times for you, I'm busy on Fridays!"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duolingouser621

I see. So niedokonany is a valid sentence, it just means something completely different.

By the way, is there any pattern at all to how to change the perfective form of a verb to the imperfective or vice versa? At this point it looks completely random to me.

Edit: Typo. Thanks Jerry!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

I don't believe that there is any pattern per se. Sometimes it's a preposition, sometimes a few letters within the verb, and sometimes the verbs are completely different :-( !

BTW, I think it's "niedokonany"....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duolingouser621

:-( indeed. Nie lubię aspektu.

You're right, it is, dzięki!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Erik787431

I was surprised by the translation. I thought this meant I cannot write this for you?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Yeah, many people do. But that would be "dla ciebie".

"za ciebie" is "this is your homework, you should do it yourself, I can't write it instead of you, that's ridiculous".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Erik787431

That makes sense and is a little clearer. I would use "for you" in english rather than "instead of you" but I follow you. Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

It's even a starred answer, but to make it the default would spoil the whole purpose, because then "dla ciebie" would be the most natural answer :|


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Augustine2017

What do you mean by "a starred answer" ?
Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Let's say you have 10 possible answers, and two of them are 'starred', i.e. they are ex aequo 'best answers'. Those are the ones that may be required of you in some exercises.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Readingski

And would "dla ciebie"/"for you" be used for writing something for somebody else to read, for example, something for one's boss or teacher?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Yeah, I guess. Like writing a poem for someone, etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EiEi.

I think it is more like " I cannot write this on behalf of you"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Readingski

Actually, "I cannot write this on your behalf" would be a more likely English sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Erik787431

Actually the best to my ears!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Hmmm... I'm not sure. Doesn't "on behalf of you" suggest that it will be known that I wrote it? If a parent writes their child's homework essay, that will be rather kept quiet...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Readingski

Well, I don't think that it does that exactly, but, to me, it does imply something over and above the simple word "instead". Can't quite explain it though!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/warfreak2

Acting "on your behalf" implies acting according to your interests rather than their own. For example, when a lawyer argues in court on your behalf, he must defend you to the best of his ability even if he privately thinks you are guilty.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bread3287

i keep checking the word (i forgot how to spell it) and it says it means "might" or "may" but when i write it as might or may it changes it to "cannot"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Well, "może" generally can mean "may" or "might", but not in every context. I don't think that "may not" or "might not" fit this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

" I may not write this instead of you." means that somebody has forbidden me to do so, whereas "cannot" should mean that I don't have the capability do so so. However, using "may" in this sense is very old-fashioned, and has pretty much dropped out of use in the U.K., to the despair of the older generation of English teachers. I think it's more common in the U.S.A; for example: Q to a wait-person: "Can I have another glass of wine?" A:"Yes, you may."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Augustine2017

Then the question would have to be : "May I have another glass of water ?"
"May I" and "You may" are no longer common in the U.S. even though I still hear it in some more formal contexts and even still use it in certain circumstances.
Usually, if someone answers the question "Can I ... ?" with "You may", it someone of an older generation (or an English teacher) trying to "correct" the younger person or teach him/her the form "may".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

If that's so, then I guess I have to add "may not". Which I've just done.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

In Russian, Nie mogu napisat' eto za tiebia or dlia tiebia depending on meaning


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MassoudSR

cześć, can we replace za with dla?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

The meaning will change from "on your behalf / instead of you" to "for you (so you can use it)".

Please read the other comments, I believe this has been discussed sufficiently.

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