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"Une nuit presque parfaite, et sans rêves"

Translation:An almost perfect night, and without dreams

January 25, 2013

28 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/n6zs
  • 2306

I'm always looking for a complete sentence rather than a fragment, so it seemed to me: "Une nuit presque parfaite est son rêve".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maggiemccarthy55

That is what I heard too! But I mishear English (my mother tongue) sometimes too!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rinch

"a near perfect night..." should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bsamsot

It is the way a native english speaker might put it, for sure.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mere_des_chats

I may be wrong but I think near-perfect would need to be hyphenated and not two separate words. Otherwise "nearly perfect" was accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bsamsot

you are perfectly right in hyphen use. but when i read nearly perfect, it does not have that same feel that near perfect/near-perfect does. and because of my hyphen deficiciency, i guess my use is just nearly perfect ;-(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pranks1645

A night almost perfect and without dreams is simply another way of saying the same thingl


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/deborahmdukes

Is there some way of distinguishing between "et" and "est" in the dictation? I had not yet seen the written version, and "An almost perfect night is without dreams" makes perfect sense in both French and English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IvoryFr96

Hi deborahmdukes! I've been studying French for years now, and I can tell you that while it may seem like you need some way of determinging between the sounds of "et" and "est", I'm afraid there really is none. It relies on context, and I assure you as a once beginner in the French language, all it takes is listening and conversation, it's really not as hard as it sounds. You'll get it so long as you expose yourself regularly and frequently.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/deborahmdukes

I think we agree, IvoryFr96, that "et" and "est" are usually quite obvious -- in context -- even though the pronunciation is identical. The problem with this particular question is that there is no context, and either word forms either a logical sentence (est) or phrase (et). My issue is that Duolingo often throws ambiguous dictées at us with no context. Of course, if I happen to have seen the sentence or phrase in written form before the dictée, I would know which word is intended.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wingman96

should there be an article before rêves? ie sans des rêves?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IvoryFr96

You'll find that while the initial rule is that French does not allow for nouns without articles, the poetic nature of the language will eventually make room for exceptions to this rule. So, no, it is not necessary, nor is really fitting given the romantic tone of the sentence, to append "des" to "rêves".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wingman96

Perfect. Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatrickJaye

Actually the reason that there is no article after "sans" is that there is almost never an article after sans.

The prepositions "sans" and "en" are special cases - they are not followed by an article.

As far as I know they are the only prepositions that behave in this way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElGusso

Do not forget "de" :

  • "De cape et d'épée"

  • C'est fait d'or et de diamant

  • Ce fromage vient de France (while countries usually take the pronoun "la France")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatrickJaye

@ElGusso

Yes indeed "de" can and often is used without an article.

My comment was made over a year ago and I think the point I was making was that "sans" and "en" are generally not followed by an article. Can you think of an example where either is used with an article?

Certainly there are fair number of situations where "de" is used without an article but nevertheless generally "de" is followed by an article.

There are probably other examples of prepositions that are occasionally used without an article.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElGusso

I just wanted to inform you, as you wrote "As far as I know they are the only prepositions that behave in this way" :-)

And yeah, there might be other exceptions, but "de" is so often used it is worth mentioning it - at least for the "de" of origin or composition, frequently used (and already seen in exercises on DuoLingo): du fromage de chèvre (goat cheese), des chaussures de sport (sports shoes), etc.

As to "sans" et "en" :

  • "sans" if often used with the article, just like in English, when you talk about something in particular: "Je bois du café sans sucre" (generality, whether just now or always, but "sucre" is referred to in general), whereas you could say "Je ne pourrais pas le faire sans l'aide de mes amis" (I could never do it without the help of my friends).

  • "en" is almost never used with the definite article (le, la, les), except in expressions ("en la personne de...", "en l'an 1515", etc.) or with certains verbs, e.g. "croire en": "Je crois en l'humanité" (I believe in humanity/mankind).

Whereas it's often used with the undefinite article (un/une): "en une seconde", "en une page", "en un mois", etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatrickJaye

@ElGusso

Fair enough - excellent additional information to my fairly basic comment.

Very useful and much appreciated - thanks ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mere_des_chats

My understanding is when you use "sans" no article is needed. I encountered this in an earlier exercise where "my husband is currently unemployed" was mon mari est sans emploi actuellement.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/misosss

Or another question: how to distinguish plural from singular if article is not present?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IvoryFr96

Context, context, context. Honestly, I don't think in this case it would really be necessary..."without dream" and "without dreams" would both convey quite effectively either way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FisherLiz

Nights with the right dreams can be good too. . .just as nights without bad dreams can be. You have to put both halves of this sentence in, I think, because (typical of Duo) there's no other context. . .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/itsrachelfish

What's wrong with dreams?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanetMassey

pranks 1645 is absolutely correct, and, furthermore, that would be a more elegant way of expressing this thought.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BriteBomber

An almost perfect night without dreams


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/effyleven

We all of us dream every night.. apparently. (Just wanted you to know that.)

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