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  5. "Pomagamy swojemu dziadkowi."

"Pomagamy swojemu dziadkowi."

Translation:We are helping our grandpa.

May 6, 2016

24 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RadhaTereska

I am wondering why this sentence is so important - I seem to get it every day during my reviews and I answer correctly each time. (;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mark958555

This one and The boy is looking for his dog...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoannKowalski

I think because in these sentences, the Duo Lingo designers are trying to reinforce in our minds the use of "szukać + genetive" and "pomagać + dative". Very tricky for me as an English speaker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mokotower

Because it's very important to help your grandpa ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/swedelmu

But is this translation correct? I thought it means "We help his grandpa", and that if we want to say "We are helping our grandpa" we should say "Pomagamy naszemu dziadkowi".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Any form of "swój" refers back to the subject of the sentence. The subject of this sentence is "We": We help. So if we help "swojemu" dziadkowi, that means we help our grandpa. If "Oni pomagają swojemu dziadkowi", then they help their grandpa. And so on, and so on.

"Pomagamy naszemu dziadkowi" is perfectly fine.

Basically, if you can use a form of "swój" correctly, do it. Some 'normal' forms (mój/twój/jego/wasz etc.) feel more natural than others in a sentence which could use 'swój'. So 3rd person possessives actually suggest that this "his/her/their" is different than the subject of the sentence. That Adam is cleaning John's car, not his own. 2nd person possessives used instead of "swój" seem very clumsy. But 1st person are actually pretty okay.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/swedelmu

Ah I see. Thanks for the quick and detailed answer! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stephen678610

Is there a logical reason for why dziadka is Dative? More than just 'thats how it is'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

The basic, Nominative form is "dziadek".

Dative "dziadkowi" is used here, because the verb "pomagać" takes Dative. Why? It's easy, Dative is used for the indirect object of the sentence. Grandpa is the 'recipient' of the action of helping.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AZ2018

I am not (yet) very proficient at Polish, but I have studied German grammar at a reasonably high level at the university. I think this way of conceptualizing dative verbs may be confusing to learners. As far as I know all indirect objects require the dative in both German and Polish. This is the case after verbs like dawac/geben or opowiadac/erzählen, where the direct object is in the accusative and and the indirect object is in the dative. However, quite a few verbs require that the DIRECT object have the dative form. Interestingly, the most common verbs that this applies to are the same in both Polish and German: congratulate, help, fit, answer, thank and quite a few others. I may be mistaken here, but I don't think there are many (any?) schools of grammar that would say that the dative in this sentence is caused by the noun being the indirect object in this sentence. It is a direct object in the dative because the verb governs the dative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

Well, you could look at this sentence as "we are giving help (direct object) to our grandfather (indirect object)."

Incidentally, quite a few verbs take genitive., "potrzebować" being a case in point.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IvesAB

Unless the definition of direct/indirect objects is different between portuguese and english, I would say this is a direct object, because there is no preposition involved


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

I just read that "To have an indirect object in a sentence there must first be a direct object.", so I guess my definition is too simplified. In Polish there word "object" in terms of grammar translates to "dopełnienie", and there are two types: dopełnienie dalsze ('farther'?) and dopełnienie bliższe ('closer'). But for both of them there are several cases they could be used.

If calling it an indirect object is wrong, then so far I don't have a better explanation than saying that "pomagać" takes Dative. But it's interesting that no one corrected me so far...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IvesAB

Strangely enough, the email notification shows me a different reply from you, maybe you have changed for the current one. Anyways, I am fine with this rule; sometimes the rule is just "it is this way because the language is like this" and several languages have such rules (portuguese is riddled with them).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

I think of this verb as "We give help to...." hence Dative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Why not, added.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/J_Rzesiewicz

What is the word for grandparent? I looked it up on google and it is the same as grandpa (dziadek). Same thing with grandparents.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

I don't think there is a singular word. Dziadkowie is used to mean grandparents, although it literally means "grandfathers".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lup0

What's the difference between nasz/naszemu and swojemu?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

In this case, it seems to me that it is mainly stylistic; for a more detailed answer, see Jellei's response to this question up the page a bit.....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/F4yY9kZj

The speaker clearly says 'omagamy' rather than 'pomagamy'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

I checked all the voices carefully and "pomagamy" is perfectly clear to me.

My guess is that it's a common 'learners have problems hearing the initial P because it's not what they are used to' problem...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

Definitely there for this Brit. Eng. speaker, but it is subtler than in English.

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