https://www.duolingo.com/holly.vita

Interested in learning Latvian but....

I am interested in learning Latvian but my Latvian is not very good and I definitely cannot set up a course. I think it would be good if a feature was added so we can request languages that we want and see how many people sign up to run it instead of just the other way round. If anyone is interested in running a course for Latvian, please do so!

May 18, 2016

15 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal

Hi holly.vita,

we can request languages that we want and see how many people sign up to run

It's almost what Duolingo already ask us to do: have one unique discussion requesting a given course and any person interested in contributing can comment it there and users interested in following the course can also comment and upvote.

About requesting a language, see this short guide about “How to suggest a course”.
Mainly, from Help Center article "How can I suggest a new language course?:

If you want to make a [course] suggestion, we encourage you to visit the forums and making a search for suggestions that have been made in the past, and adding your vote and comments to those existing posts [and thus not creating a new one]. That will make the request more popular and make it stand out more, encouraging more people to add their votes. :)

Note: Texts in between square brackets are additions of mine.

And the guide linked above does have a link for an existing suggestion made in the past about the course you're suggesting.

May 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/holly.vita

Thank you very much. Part of the reason why I commented what I did though is because people have tried to apply before to run this cause (and not just one but many) and they haven't been accepted for some reason. But thank you anyway as I didn't think to look at even more posts than the one I am subscribed to.

May 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal

Having enough contributors isn't the only criteria for Duolingo to add a course into the incubator. In fact it's almost not at all a criteria: it's for sure not a sufficient condition for a course to be added in the incubator but it's in fact not even absolutely necessary: Irish from English course was added to the incubator and first contributors were added only 1 month later.

Duo decides (with its own criterias and with its own schedule) to add a course to the incubator. Once decided, they check if they have good applications (if not, they make a call for applications). This explain why:

people have tried to apply before to run this cause (and not just one but many) and they haven't been accepted

It's not that they haven't been accepted, it's just that Duolingo didn't decided yet to add the "Latvian from English" course.

May 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/holly.vita

I am just hoping that there is a course that's all but thank you I completely understand now. I just really need this course to run for many reasons and I really cannot find it outside of this website which seems to be the hub for languages and how they are taught here work very well. I know many people also want to learn this and it is just a shame that it has not been able to run. Thank you anyway.

May 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/holly.vita

What I mean through what I said at the beginning though is that it should be made easier to contact Duolingo in order to get the language debated by the team instead of having to post comments on this post and that post and that post... After time all that process is tedious and does not always get the message across. The system should be made easier.

May 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal

The thing is that if they didn't create a dedicated system to "debate" (with the users) what course (not only from English) should be added next, it's very likely because they don't want to "debate" the list of "next courses to be added" with the users.
Given how it has worked up to now when it came to add a new course to the incubator and what they ask us to do to "suggest" a language, it looks like to me that they just want to have a vague idea of what users ask the most (well, what is the one more voiced, not meaning it's the one most wanted by the big silent majority of users ;) ) and the fact they don't want more than that probably indicates it's a minor criteria in their decision process.

By the way, if it were "debated" with users and the list ordered by the really most asked, I'm really not sure "Latvian for English speakers" would be up in the list. ;)

May 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/holly.vita

All I am hoping for is an easier system to vote for a language. A good recommendation was mentioned above: to have a poll for languages. Therefore, all voting would be in one place and I think people may be able to find it easier so more people will participate and therefore meaning that the overall view of what people want is seen more. I actually did not know about the whole "post and add" process until you completely explained it before. If it is kept that way, it is fine but I am just thinking of what would make the Duolingo world more accessible, beautiful (if even possible) and usable. Duolingo is a place thriving with language-loving users and if this can be exaggerated by more people being aware of how to bring around new languages onto the website that they have only ever dreamt of, this atmosphere would become even more thriving and uplifting from the next biggest hype like the next big pop song coming out in the music world. Beauty: that is what Duolingo is but nothing can be made too beautiful.

May 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/John00625

Yes! Duolingo should add a website that is like poll.duolingo.com or something like that, than put lots of languages for users to vote on and if they get lots of votes they can look for people who can develop that course.

May 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/psionpete

That is what is called "putting the cart before the horse". It is more productive to find volunteers willing to create a course first and then to decide which of those courses should be created first. I imagine Duo does listen to our requests but they also have many other criteria to consider.

May 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/holly.vita

Yes I completely understand what you mean and I don't mean to get rid of that feature but I think there should be an additional part where you could vote for what you want to learn. People will always be interested to teach so I think maybe this could be an improvement to duolingo to see what people want and then the website will be made by the users and not just by the creators meaning that it will be used more with people who are enthusiastic about the language they want. If they can't find enough people then fair enough but it's worth a shot!

May 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal

there could be a poll set up every few months or so. Therefore, everyone would know where to access it and know what to do EASILY.

It's much more efficient to have a sticky post on the main forum. A "new poll every month" would stay up for few minutes then disappear like any new discussion and not be seen. While the sticky post I gave a link to in my first comment is always one of the 3-4 top post an user see when they enter the English forum.

Before I wondered if anyone is going to set up this course I want, I rarely ventured into this side of Duolingo

That's why the guide is sticky: when you enter the forum, it's just there. It can be missed but nothing can be more visible all the time than those few sticky posts.

there will be many like me who do not know about this.

And with a new poll avery month (which would it would be the same).

Therefore, there are 2 options: either this "post and support" process is voiced more

It's exactly what is done by mentioning it everytime someone missed the sticky post an make a new discussion. ;)

a poll is to be setup when Duolingo is ready to support another language.

This will not address the fact that new users may not see the sticky post and not know how to request.

Moreover, as mentioned earlier, users's opinion about what "should" be the next course to be added doesn't seem to be one of the main criteria for deciding, so making a poll doesn't seem relevant given this fact. Also, a new poll anytime a new course is to be added would only give a "view" of what the users that are on the forums during the few minutes the discussion will stay on top of the forum want and not what the whole community would like to have.

Finally: it's not only about supporting a new language (this happens in average every 2 months while adding a new course is, on average every 12-15 days) but about adding into the incubator a new course. Thus the poll would have to be done on all forums (not only on the forum for English speakers). ;)

I hope you understand the side I am coming from as I do understand yours.

Yes I understand that you'd like Latvian. ;) And it's your plain right.
I'm on no side on this, just explaining how Duo has worked for the past years. ;)

But the main point is "why Duolingo would spend time setuping a poll common to all users (speaking all different languages) each time they want to add a new course" when users' opinion isn't one of the main criteria/driving factor deciding which course will be added?
Looks like spending energy (and time, since it'll delay the decision by severl days) in something that would give them only an idea of what the users that will connect on the next few days want (instead of an accumulative thing like the "one request per course" thing they ask to do) for something that has anyway not a big influence on the final decision.

May 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal

All I am hoping for is an easier system to vote for a language.

Looks quite an easy vote system the one currently existing:

Anytime you want to vote for a course (not a language ;) ) then

  1. find the place to vote for (the guide I linked, which is on top of the forum, will give you almost all of them) and if no place, then create it.
  2. vote for it.

Therefore, all voting would be in one place and I think people may be able to find it easier so more people will participate and therefore meaning that the overall view of what people want is seen more.

  1. Only Duo needs to have the overview
  2. One discussion with everybody commenting => it'll be overloaded and thus almost impossibel to open after a few hours.
    And an external website => hard for Duolingo to control that there are not few persons votig tons of times (here they can control that much more).

I actually did not know about the whole "post and add" process until you completely explained it before.

That's why the guide is on top of the forum. And if some users don't see it first, it would be the same with a general poll.
Moreover, how to make such general poll on Duo common to all forums (for all speakers of all languages that have a forum on Duolingo)?

if this can be exaggerated by more people being aware of how to bring around new languages onto the website

A poll wouldn't help on that more than the current system.
A poll would be about "what users want" (like the current system) not about how to help it happening. And knowing how to help (: offering to be a contributor) is already not the limiting factor for courses to be added.


And, again, what users want as next course added doesn't seem (based on past additon) one of the main criteria on which staff base its decision. So why making all a ne system for obtaining an information that is not really important (to Duo) to take the decision?

May 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/holly.vita

That makes a lot of sense, thank you :) But, could I possibly ask, what tends to be the limiting factor of a course being added if it has already had enough people willing to contribute to the course?

May 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal

The limiting factor is Duo wanting (on its own criteria) to see the course be the next one to be added.

And, why Duo can't add all courses at once and thus need to decide which one to come next?
Because they're a small team and any new course comes with new bugs/needs/ideas that need to be addressed both in the incubator (and believe me there are already a bunch of those pending currently ;) ) and in the main site (we all know there are already a lot of bugs to fix and ideas to implement). So staff couldn't deal with all the issues that would arise if they were to add all courses at once into the incubator. And you also need to "form" the new contributors to the use of the incubator.

May 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/holly.vita

Ok, thank you.

May 19, 2016
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