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  5. "This hat is old."

"This hat is old."

Translation:Ten kapelusz jest stary.

May 18, 2016

82 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Philipp88107

"This hat is old - ten kapelusz jest stary." duolingo says that this is the right answer. OK. Makes sense.

But duolingo wants me to use "czapka" instead of "kapelusz". "ta czapka jest stara - this cap is old" or did I miss something?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Well, English also commonly uses "hat" for what I (and clearly you) would definitely call a cap.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Babette397877

Hat has a brim. A cap has a bill or visor. If the english asked for 'hat' seems like kapelusz is more accurate (imo).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DorotaJarosz

In English, both a brimmed hat and a cap, as well as a skullcap (without a visor) are all types of hats. In Polish we do not have a commen word for all these as a super category. Kapelusz is a brimmed hat and czapka is without a brim though it may have a visor. Both translations of hat are correct.

Kapelusz must have a brim (rondo): https://sjp.pwn.pl/szukaj/kapelusz.html

Czapka must not have a brim but may have a visor (daszek): https://sjp.pwn.pl/szukaj/czapka.html

Czapka z daszkiem = a cap

Hat contains both: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hat


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexMaxS

I did "Ten kapelusz jest stary." And it says I'm wrong! It says the correct answer is "Ta czapka jest stara." This needs to be fixed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/V1Stephen

Something wrong here. The course tells me a hat is kapelusz & cap is czapka.

Then when I'm asked to use a sentence with hat it tells me it's wrong & I should've used cap.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4kidsandacat

Yes we've been told from the start of this lesson that cap is czapka and hat is capelusz. I will admit i mismatched the adjective and the noun ("ta kapelusz" instead of "ten kapelusz") and deservedly was marked wrong, but the correction changed the noun rather than the adjective. This is very confusing for a student.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eliza2465

Duo needs to be consistent. Hat is Kapelusz and cap is Czapka. It's not a debate of what looks like one or the other, if we're translating English words to Polish words. Learning a language is hard enough .. they need to fix this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BuchitaBuchys

Not a question, but more like a suggestion. I wish we didn't have to go to the discussion just to have the option for the pronunciation in the desktop version. Like, it would be nice if it gave you the correct pronunciation after you chose/wrote the answer instead of having to click on the discussion just to hear it pronounced correctly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Well, that's a suggestion to the developers, so it belongs in the Troubleshooting or Duolingo forums :) Nothing we can do about it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/denisemma

Given words: Ta kapelusz ubrania buty jest spodnie czapka stara How do you get "Ten kapelusz jest stary? p.s. I did you the wrong word for cap instead of hat


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Whenever I google "hat", half of the results in Google Graphics show "kapelusz" and half show "czapka". That's why both words are starred answers. The algorithm must have wanted "Ta czapka jest stara" from you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JestemJenny

Couldn't you say "Ta czapka jest stara" also?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

I hate to admit it, but I guess yes. If you really would call something like or "a hat".

But I think that 99% of Polish learners of English see something more of or when they hear the word "hat".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JestemJenny

Thanks! So is "czapka" more of a ball hat (or the winter hat), while "kapelusz" is a sunhat like the lower pictures you posted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Yes. To me, "czapka" is mostly either czapka z daszkiem (a baseball cap or similar) or czapka zimowa (a beanie). At least from the ones in common use. A number of other, a lot less common usages you can find here if you click the links for different types.

As for "kapelusz", these examples I found may be too too much of "sunhats" indeed (edit: the pictures have been changed from that time). They definitely can be more elegant. I think what defines a kapelusz, is the fact that it has a brim. A top hat for example, is definitely a kapelusz, although it has its own unique name - cylinder. Maybe you could have a look at Polish Wikipedia here, click some links the article lists and see what we consider to be a kapelusz :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JestemJenny

Dziękuję bardzo serdecznie!! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/britchick84

I was told I was wrong when I translated hat as "kapelusz" and that czapka was correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Well, both are correct translations of the word "hat" (which has quite a broad definition), the question is what your whole answer was. It should be either "Ten kapelusz jest stary" or "Ta czapka jest stara".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gloria314533

Why is duolingo saying czapka instead of kapelusz?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IvanSauten

The right answer "Ten kapelusz jest stary" does not pass!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

Could you provide a screenshot in case this happens again?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bill780760

I agree with previous posted comments but as I see that some of these were made a year ago it is obvious that Duo is not reacting. Perhaps he should refrain from attending premieres and enjoying the high life and deal with posts.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Which exact comments do you agree with and what are we not reacting to?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Charlotte810451

The answer claims to be 'Ta czapka jest stara' after just teaching me hat = kapelusz!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

The English language commonly uses "hat" for both those things, which has been discussed above multiple times.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Peter5281

Stil czapka is required asanswer, kapelusz is taken as wrong answer. Please correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulSnedde

Why is "tego" not allowed here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"tego" can be Accusative or Genitive, but here "this hat" is the subject of the sentence, so it simply uses the Nominative form.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mkcasia94

Kapelusz and czapka, do they have the same meaning?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BearBread

If I'm understanding correctly, they are both head coverings, but kapelusz has a brim and czapka has a bill or flat to the head.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pleemsqueem

Kapelusz is a correct answer as well


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eliza2465

No, is it hat or cap. Really....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RayneRiverstone

Same as the others. Can this be fixed please?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

What exactly? Which comments are you referring to?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vera4924

Why not "Ten kapelusz jest starym" or "Ta czapka jest starą"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Adjectives don't decline to the instrumental case unless they are modifying a noun after the verb jest, są, etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vera4924

Thanks for answer!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/julie380261

Yes I don't understand why kapelusz was not corret for hat


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"kapelusz" is definitely the right word for a hat.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Leo497038

Duolingo is wrong as it wants me to use czapka instead of kapelusz..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

What was your entire sentence? "czapka" is also a translation of "hat".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KathyScott548117

how do you know what kind of hat it is? I thought that kapelusz is a hat also.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Yes, it is. In fact, that's definitely what I think of when hearing the word "hat". What was your whole answer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joe19902

The only choice is "czapka" — "kapelusz" is not an option.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Well, could you create "Ta czapka jest stara" from the options?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnWojcik2

It doesn't seem right that Duolingo has hat translated as kapelusz and cap as czapka then expect learners to then translate cap as kepelusz in its exercises.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

A cap is absolutely never "kapelusz".

It's a "hat" that has a meaning so wide in English that we need to accept both "kapelusz" and "czapka" for it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bill780760

According to the tips “kapelusz” is a hat with a brim and “czapka” is a cap or beanie. This then is the template for further use. Duo needs to have some consistency


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Well, English should have some consistency, depending on whom you ask, they will call my czapka either a cap or a hat. If I use Google Graphics for "hat", half of the results are "czapka" and half of them are "kapelusz". If I google "cap", then all of them are "czapka".

However, here's what I just added at the end of the Tips, to make it clearer: "Many native speakers of English would however also use the word "hat" for a "czapka", which makes the translations confusing".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qartveli1

Ten kapelusz jest stary !!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/agpie9

Duolingo seems to inconsistently apply the definitions of czapka/kapelusz for cap/hat. Sometimes they seem to be interchangeable and sometimes you can only use one. Just for clarity, a cap is a type of hat but a hat will not necessarily always be a cap. Using czapka as a translation for the broad catagory of hat seems incorrect but what do I know?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Unless we made a mistake somewhere, everything is consistent.

"kapelusz" can only translate to "hat", but "czapka" can translate both to "cap" and "hat" because that's just how English uses the word "hat". I would love it if it didn't, but I can't change the English language. Therefore "hat" has to accept both Polish words.

If I search for "hat" in Google Graphics, around 50% of the results are "czapka". That's, like, a lot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/agpie9

I think that has, typically, been the case. This time though, it was the kind of exercise where you only had certain words to choose from to make the answer. Czapka was the only option in this case. Maybe it was just a glitch.

And a cap is a type of hat so I think the google results make sense. In English "Hat" seems to be a broader category than "Kapelusz" is in Polish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Definitely a broader category... as for this exercise, given the 50/50 division of those Google Graphics results, we treat "czapka" and "kapelusz" as ex aequo 'best answers' for the word "hat". It's just so likely that a person translating the word "hat" will rather have a "czapka" in mind. So if they are both 'best answers' here, the algorithm just needs to allow you to create one of those answers, in this case, it used the one with "czapka".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnWojcik2

The problem with this statement is that we are given both czapka and kepelusz. Duolingo told us when these words were introduced that they were cap and hat respectively. If they're interchangeable then using either answer should be correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

And they both are correct, if you matched the adjective's and the determiner's forms correctly (Ta czapka jest stara / Ten kapelusz jest stary).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sera_fin

"kapelusz" was always "hat", here they want "czapka"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Unfortunately the English language (of course it may be dependent on the dialect) very commonly uses the word "hat" both for the things we call "kapelusz" and the things we call "czapka".

And frankly, "kapelusz" is not something very common nowadays, so...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bruno.bach1

I agree with all the remarks as it is very confusing


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Simeon1969

I'm getting a sense of groundhog day/deja vu reading these Jellei! You patiently explained the same thing several times! ☺


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

That is so, so true... not many people bother to read the comments, unfortunately.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bobby634837

Question very vague, a hat is Kapelusz, and cap is czapka according to other lessons, my Polish wife said that she'd have answered kapelusz too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

I'm not sure what the question is. "a cap" is definitely "czapka", and "a hat" is either "kapelusz" or "czapka", because that's just how English speakers use this word, for both those things.

I'd expect a Polish person to understand "hat" as "kapelusz", but of course that doesn't guarantee anything.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ConwayTwitty

As others say : 100% in the help they tell us kapelusz is hat and czapka is cap, then make use the wrong answer? Needs fixed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

No. "kapelusz" is a hat, yes. "czapka" is both a cap and a hat because that's just how English uses that. Think of the word "hat", it is used for a wide variety of things, some of which are called "kapelusz" and some are called "czapka".

We'd love it if the translations were as straightforward as you say, but they're not. Google Graphics, when I search for "hat", gives about 50/50 division between "czapka" and "kapelusz".

Quote from the Tips&Notes: "A cap (or a winter beanie) translates to czapka. Many native speakers of English would however also use the word "hat" for a "czapka", which makes the translations confusing."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ConwayTwitty

But the tips you read are the confusion then? But I don't think that's the problem. It's similar in English then that a cap is a specific form of hat, same as an apple is a specific form of fruit and running shoes are a specific form of shoe. That is a good analogy as to what is wrong here. The text it asks you to translate is "This hat is old", not "The cap is old". There is no information here as to the specific form of hat, so hat in Polish would 100% appear to be the correct answer. If it asked you to translate "The fruit is old" and the correct answer was somehow "The apple is old" in Polish, people would be frustrated. That is the problem, the translation is asking for something more specific than the question gives. In fact I could see how translation "The cap is old" and it resulting in "The hat is old" would be justifiable, but not the other way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DorotaJarosz

In the example with an apple and a fruit, we must also include a pear. Kapelusz (= a brimmed hat) is an apple and czapka (=a cap or a skullcap) is a pear. We do not have a common word for a hat in Polish, no equivalent of a fruit in your comparison. We have many types of kapelusz and many types of czapka. The only higher category for kapelusz and czapka is nakrycie/okrycie głowy = head covering, which includes other fruit, e.g., a helmet (hełm, kask).

Kapelusz must have a brim (rondo): https://sjp.pwn.pl/szukaj/kapelusz.html

Czapka must not have a brim but may have a visor (daszek): https://sjp.pwn.pl/szukaj/czapka.html


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/courtneyka655528

I keep getting this one wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BIOBELE

I thought czapka = cap And kapelusz = hat


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

If English was consistent, then yes, but unfortunately (for this course) English tends to very commonly use the word "hat" for things that could easily be called a "cap".

So "this hat" can easily be an elegant brimmed hat (kapelusz) or a cool baseball hat/cap (czapka)...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Simeon1969

Is there any way to have a permanent message at the top of these pages saying "Please read the comments below before posting a question as it may already have been answered 54 times! Sigh!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

It's always such an incredible honour to have your very own question answered by such a legend as Jellei. That must surely be the reason why our comment sections are full of repetitive comments.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Simeon1969

That is so true Alik, he is wonderful! If only I was female (sigh!) You aren't too bad yourself I have come to realise, just a bit grumpier ;) Erm... so... what's the difference between a kapelusz and a czapka, I seem to have forgotten...?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Frankly, Google Graphics can be the most helpful thing to show you the exact meaning :)

But "kapelusz" basically has a brim, so that would include all the fancy elegant hats, fedora hats, a straw hat for the summer, and so on.

"czapka" is mostly either a "czapka z daszkiem" (a baseball hat/cap) or "czapka zimowa" (a winter beanie).

On a separate note: Awwww, thank you <3


[deactivated user]

    There was no kapelusz as an option, only czapka. Are they like in english (hat/kapelusz is a generic term, while cap/czapka is a kind of hat).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

    They're not, I'd say they're rather mutually exclusive.

    The problem is with the English usage, if I search for "hat" in Google Graphics, half the results show a czapka, the other half show a kapelusz. That's why we consider both 'best answers', so the algorithm just asks for one of them.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Craig613921

    Please duo make up your mind is kapelusz a hat? Is czapka a cap? While a cap can be a hat not all hats can be a cap.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

    I really don't think I have anything more to add than what I already wrote. When English stops using the word "hat" for a cap then the situation will finally be clear. Right now it's not, but it's not our fault.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janice101280

    Why czapka and not kapelusz when the Englis isasking for a hat?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

    Both are accepted.

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