1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Italian
  4. >
  5. "Due scarpe tu ce le hai, puo…

"Due scarpe tu ce le hai, puoi andare dove vuoi."

Translation:You have two shoes, you can go where you want.

May 18, 2016

19 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IvanNurk

Is this the most convoluted phrase ever in Italian? Due scarpe tu ce le hai? Two shoes there you they have them you? or something odd. Why not Hai due scarpe? As for emphasis, try yelling!

October 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thmsky

"two shoes you have them there, you can go where you want"

Sounds like Yoda.

March 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BillRuppert

I entered "two shoes you have, you can go where you want" which is really Yoda-ish. Which given this is part of a song is not too bad.

April 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oz2015

I wrote "you have two shoes there, you canto where you want", which was marked incorrect. I'm not sure what ce refers to here.

May 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ilmolleggi

The hints are misleading in this sentence, ce (with its doublet ci) does not mean "there" in this sentence.

It's a funny little useless word which you must put sometimes but is also often abused and added even where it shouldn't be:

Every time you're using the verb "to have" with the three singular persons (I, you, he/she/it) on its own to mean "to possess" and you use a non-emphatic personal pronoun of the singular third person (basically "lo", "la") you must add a "ce" to reinforce the verb, which otherwise feels too short and too weak. E.g.:

  • I've got it = Ce l'ho

  • You've got her = Ce l'hai

  • He's got him = Ce l'ha

This need for "ce" is also present in the plural persons and with plural third person pronouns ("li" and "le") but is less strong and sometimes is dropped

  • We've got them (girls) = Ce le abbiamo

  • You've got them (boys) = Ce li avete

  • They've got them = Ce li hanno

Finally many people use the weird, irregular verb "averci" as an alternative form of "avere" when it means "possess":

  • "C'ho paura" instead of "Ho paura"

or

  • C'hanno solo €10" instead of "Hanno solo €10"

This is considered wrong by the standard grammar and can never be used in writing.

Note that "ci/ce" is also the non-emphatic "us". The latter form is used when two non-emphatic pronouns come together. E.g.:

  • You know us = Ci conoscete

  • They give it to us = Ce lo danno

As a final note, "ci/ce" is used in a non-standard, irregular, dialectal way to mean "gli" or "le", i.e. the non-emphatic dative pronouns of "lo" and "la". This use is very much frowned upon and I advise against using it, but I mention it so you'll able to understand if people were to use it. E.g.:

  • They give him/her the present = Ci danno il regalo (when used in a standard way this would mean "they give us the present)

  • Talk to her/him! = Parlaci! (ditto, this should mean "talk to us", although "parlare" usually goes with "con" not with "a", so normally people would say "parla con noi")

Hope this helped and didn't confuse you even more

P.S.: this sentence is grammatically wrong, or substandard, as you find a so-called Anacoluthon: two words serve twice the same one function, and precisely the direct object, which here is both "le scarpe" and "le".

This is considered wrong in Italian, whereas it is completely standard in other languages, notably French. Even then, there should be a comma after scarpe so people can tell the function word is being repeated.

Finally, this sentence comes from the lyrics of the song "Prendi fra le mani la testa" by Lucio Battisti, so this explains why it's so sub-standard and far from Duolingo's simple, example sentences.

May 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jeri123

First, thank your for this wonderful explanation. I've printed it and I'm adding it to my study notes. You say the sentence is grammatically wrong; can you please give the grammatically correct form of the sentence? I understand there is some redundancy, but I'm not clear whether "le" or "ce" should be omitted, or even if the whole sentence should be re-written. Grazie.

May 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ilmolleggi

Wow! Happy to have such a positive impact!!

The correct version would be "Tu hai due scarpe, puoi andare dove vuoi" or if you don't need to emphasise the subject "Hai due scarpe, puoi andare dove vuoi". Another option, if the context were clear enough, would be "(Tu) ce le hai, puoi andare dove vuoi".

Hope this cleared your doubts ;)

May 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jeri123

vi ringrazio entrambi, credo che ce l'abbia! :-)

May 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ilmolleggi

(If you wanted to say "I think I got it" it should be "credo di aver capito", because "ce l'ho" doesn't mean "I understand" in Italian

Also usually you use "di + infinitive" when the subject of the sentences corresponds, the subjunctive is only usually used for different subjects)

Happy I could help you :)

May 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jeri123

grazie di nuovo! credo di aver capito (finalmente).

May 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jeri123

I understand the first version (tu hai due scarpe, puoi andare dove vuoi) perfectly, but I'm not so sure I understand the final option (ce le hai, puoi andare dove vuoi)... it seems literally to mean "you have them, you can go where you want" but it doesn't seem plausible without some previous reference to shoes. Am I making sense? Anyway, I THINK I'm understanding how to use "ce" in this way. Thank you again. Your input is always helpful.

May 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/craaash80

Just as a side note to @ilmolleggi's brilliant explanation, there are two reasons for the final option here:

  • Being a song, there are metric purposes (just replace the phonetic syllables with a beat and you will realize it). Plus, an assonance "hai/vuoi" was needed . Hence, it was necessary to "switch" the first, more linear version "Hai due scarpe...".

  • "Ce" emphasizes the sentence, serving the same purpose of "do" in "You DO have two shoes".

May 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ilmolleggi

Yeah that's exactly what it means. If someone had spoken about the shoes earlier you could avoid mentioning them again and just say "them". Either way "ce le hai" is a grammatically correct sentence, even if the meaning is different (unless the context clarifies it).

Happy to help! :)

May 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Veronika801

Grazie mille!

February 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CaptainPhasma

Awesome explanation, I wrote it down in my grammar book! Two lingots for you :)

February 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dcounts

Grazie! Absolutely masterful explanation! I've stored it with my study notes. Grazie ancora!

May 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oz2015

sorry, …see below you can go where you want

May 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ruckelhaxan

Ultimately confusing, as per usual :/

March 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Keith352848

So, just to be clear, wouldn't "Hai due scarpe, puoi andare dove vuoi." have been infinitely easier???

October 13, 2019
Learn Italian in just 5 minutes a day. For free.