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"My men have wine."

Translation:Moi mężczyźni mają wino.

May 27, 2016

25 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rachel873062

I understand the comments posted defending "ludzie" as a translation for "men." And, I agree that sometimes, English speakers use "men" to refer to "mankind." (For example, when praying one may say, "Lord, protect all men.")

However, "people" has an understanding of either a group of mixed gender or a group of humans of unknown gender. Perhaps they are all men; perhaps they are all women; perhaps they are mixed. "People" is not specific regarding the gender. However, "My men..." is very specific regarding the gender - at least in English. Because this sentence makes it clear to only be discussing males, I have a hard time accepting "ludzie" as an appropriate translation in this situation.

I had to post something, since this is the 3rd time I have gotten this question wrong! By the time the question cycles through my practice, I have forgotten what is expected to be answered! Perhaps, now that I have written a post, I will remember for future practice! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IanIanIanIan_

why is "Moi ludzie mają wino" also correct? isnt that people


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei
Mod
  • 2

Frankly it's even more probable of a translation, the only usage of "moi mężczyźni" I can imagine is a woman talking about men from her family, especially her husband and sons.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanette364461

Would this formulation be used in an old-time military context? "My men are ready to take the ridge..."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei
Mod
  • 2

Rather "moi ludzie". It would sound very strange to emphasize the fact that they are male.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mihxal

Yes, and English "men" has dual meaning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JulesBear1

For me to arrive at the conclusion that I should translate "my men" as "moi ludzie," I'd need to know a lot of things that I feel like I'd have no way of knowing

A) I'd have to know the speaker is referring to "his people" (like his workers or whatever.) In english, using "my men" in this context is situational to the point of being something only foremen and military officials would ever use really. It's essentially already a strange sentence that using context to deduce the meaning opens up some fairly broad ambiguity, enough that it's super plausible for the meaning to be "my adult males."

B) I'd have to know that in polish, mężczyźni is not used to describe adults in a gender neutral way. Which you might just guess, but that would require identifying the english "my men" as idiomatic and removing that meaning from your mind. Even then, that guess would still be a shot in the dark, especially since the grammar of the language suggests something counter-intuitive. In polish, words that refer to groups of people with at least one male human are treated as words in the masculine gender. So while you wouldn't refer to a group of men and women as "mężczyźni," you would treat the word that refers to that group the same way you would treat the word "mężczyźni" grammatically. If I'm not mistaken.

C) Translating it to "my people" is potentially a little strange? You would only reasonably do that, I feel, if you were assuming that by "my men" he meant "my workers." At which point, it would seem more appropriate to translate "my men" to "my workers" than to "my people."

D) There is an option that translates the sentence directly, and I have no reason to assume that this option is not sufficient. If the "Moi mężczyźni mają wino" option was not present, my first guess would be "Moi ludzie mają wino" for sure. But otherwise, I have as much reason to translate "man" to "ludzie" in this context as I would have reason to translate "goat" to "zwierzete."

The translation obviously isn't wrong, but I feel like it's just something a student would never guess, with the given information? Even if you identify that "Moi ludzie mają wino" could mean the same thing, I feel like assuming it's an appropriate TRANSLATION amounts to an arbitrary guess, for most english speakers not acquainted with the rules.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/immery

I think the trouble you encountered is a consequence of multiple choice questions. I'd compare it to "dinner" sentence, when depending on the context it's obiad or kolacja, and multiple choice means you have to pick both.

And the problem with man /człowiek I would describe like this:

depending on context:

mężczyzna=>człowiek
osoba=> person
człowiek => human/man/person

human=>człowiek
person=>osoba/człowiek
man=>mężczyzna/człowiek


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JulesBear1

I think it's definitely only an issue on the multiple choice, yes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/margotgm

when do men and people become the same word?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/immery

what do you mean?. In Polish, or English?

Polish perspective- when English man/men clearly means "human(s)" - you translate it to "człowiek/ludzie"

when man clearly means male person- but is a general statement about "this man" , or "he is a +adjective +man" , Polish person would more likely use człowiek, if there is no extra stress on gender, or "adult"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/starbuck667

"Men" as a translation of "ludzie" seems quite odd to me. I guess you would be able to say "my guys have wine" if you were talking about a group of people of mixed gender, but even that as a translations sounds very strange in english.

Yes it's true that man/men can also mean human in english, but I am quite certain that no one would adress people as man or men except in some colloquial expressions, e.g. "hey man, what's up man, come on man etc. Hope I'm making any sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei
Mod
  • 2

I quite agree. "My men" and "Moi ludzie" sounds as if you were a boss of some group, but it's informal anyway.

So I interpret "moi ludzie" for example as "a group of construction workers, for whom I am the boss".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlanGair

Why create confusion? Regardless of the context or meaning, 'men' TRANSLATES as 'mężczyżny' and 'people' as 'ludzie'. If you mean 'people', don't ask for 'men' to be translated. The context can be played with in either language and once we're more fluent we'll be able to use what's most suitable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ewka371733

Nie zgadzam sie


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HalinaMari

Tu nie wystepuje: ludzie


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei
Mod
  • 2

"Men" can easily mean the same as "People", about some specific group of people. As I said before: I interpret "moi ludzie" for example as "a group of construction workers, for whom I am the boss".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tima841295

Translating mezczyzni as people seems totally outdated to me!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei
Mod
  • 2

You mean the other way round? "people" is not accepted, but "ludzie" is even starred.

And as I wrote above: "Men" can easily mean the same as "People", about some specific group of people. As I said before: I interpret "moi ludzie" for example as "a group of construction workers, for whom I am the boss".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KesGrelly

as you are the boss you can certainly tell me whether in your group of construction workers there are men and women as well. In other words: if chlowiek means man, and the plural of chlowiek is ludzie, are the members of the group of ludzie only men ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei
Mod
  • 2

"człowiek" generally means a human, a human being, but if you're talking about one specific man (one specific male person), it becomes synonymous with "mężczyzna".

I just don't think that any boss will ever say "Moi mężczyźni", even if all of his employees are male. That's just super weird. I don't like this sentence, for me it makes little sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carin181060

The point of this course is IMHO not to learn sentences that make sense. We've had other sentences that make little sense. Would you ever say to anyone that your fish wears a shirt? The purpose is to learn to make grammatically correct sentences. We learned that 'men' should be translated to 'mężczyźni' and 'people' are 'ludzie'. Now I've been asked to translate "My men have wine", not "My people have wine." How illogical 'mężczyźni" seems here, "ludzie" is the wrong translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenConway6

Regardless of whether 'ludzie' is an appropriate translation of 'men' ........ Why does the 'correct' translation use the word 'mężczyźni' when that word wasn't even given in the words to choose from?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei
Mod
  • 2

"ludzie" is also a starred answer, so if the algorithm didn't give you "mężczyźni", it must have given you "ludzie".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenConway6

It did give 'ludzie', I was just surprised that it didn't give 'mężczyźni'. Thr first time I had it, I didn't use any noun there, just 'moi' as it implies the masculine animate plural, and it said it was wrong and that the correct translation was 'moi mężczyźni'. I was puzzled that the 'correct' answer it gave wasn't an option (although an alternative but less accurate word was, which is obviously what it was expecting).

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