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  5. "Ten kot jej nie lubi."

"Ten kot jej nie lubi."

Translation:This cat does not like her.

June 1, 2016

25 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ash473779

Can "jej" and "ją" be used interchangeably or is one for a positive one for a negative?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

No, they can't. Also it's oversimplifying to say that one's for positive and the other's for negative.

Basically, 'jej' is either genitive or dative, while 'ją' is accusative. It is very common that a verb takes accusative in a positive sentence, but genitive when it is negated. And so it the case with this exact example. So what you wrote works here and will work in many cases, but it's only 'common' and not 'always'.

Declension on Wiktionary


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/P8W7k

Does word order change here? Is it possible to say "ten kot nie jej lubi" or similar?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

No, that's wrong.

"Ten kot nie ją lubi" would be kinda correct but weird anyway (This cat likes not her, but someone else). As it negates 'ją' and not 'lubi', the grammatical case changes from Genitive in the original, negated sentence, to Accusative in 'my sentence'.

I see a lot of people creating sentences which tend to mean "not me/him/them, but someone else" as a result... seems that it's really better to keep to the rules first, and later learn how to break them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tezariy

"ten" is a "that", "to" - "this", what a hack


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"this" and "that" have translations dependent on the grammatical gender, not to mention the cases.

In Nominative, as here it's just the subject of the sentence so it's Nominative, they are like this: ten (masculine), ta (feminine), to (neuter), ci (masculine personal plural), te (not masculine-personal plural).

With 'that', apart from femine Accusative (tę / tamtą), you just add 'tam' at the beginning of the determiner.

And technically, "ten" is not a translation of "that". But it's an accepted solution. Polish and English look differently at the notion of 'closeness'. English has "this/that/that", Polish has "ten/ten/tamten". So the first 'that' and the second 'ten' overlap.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/qgroff

Thank you! This is exactly the kind of material I miss when using Duolingo on mobile. There's only so much you can learn from context and unexplicated examples.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mkantorova

Hey! Isn't "Ten kot jej nie lubi" more like "She doesn't like this cat"? because I think "The cat doesn't like her" would sound better as "The cat nie lubi ją" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Well... not. The subject of the sentence is "ten kot". The verb "lubić" needs Accusative: Ten kot ją lubi / lubi ją (for a positive sentence). But every time when a sentence with Accusative is negated, Accusative changes into Genitive. So: The kot jej nie lubi / nie lubi jej.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PedroCadil1

Could it be "Ten kot nie lubi jej"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Yes, it doesn't sound great to my ear, but it's acceptable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexeyPshek

is "ten kot jej nie lubi" = "ten kot nie lubi ją"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Okcydent

No. „lubić” requires accusative, and when negated accusative changes to genitive, hence jej.

Ten kot jej nie lubi. (This cat doesn't like her)
Ten kot nie ją lubi. (It' not she that this cat likes).
Nie ten kot ją lubi/Lubi ją nie ten kot (It's not this cat that likes her)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexeyPshek

so when can i use "jej" and "ją"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Okcydent

In my first example: „lubić” is negated, hence ją->jes.
In second and third example I negated „cat” and „her” but not „lubić”. In this case „ją” stays „ją”. There is also another possibility, not shown above, that „jej” is used as a possessive pronoun. In that case jej stays jej.

A sentence like that could look like this:
Ten kot lubi nie jej mleko. (It's not her milk that this cat likes)
However this sounds rather strange.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexeyPshek

thanks a lot for your explanation, i will think it over, but it's too complicate for me now, i'll try to sort it out subsequently. it seems to me that "ją". "go". "cię" are used at the end of the sentences generally. anyway thanks for your help.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zzhumphreyt

Why wouldn't it be this?

Ten kot nie lubi jej.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bannadine

It's technically right but Polish has a flexible and not a free structure which means that some phrases will sound more natural than others. "Ten kot jej nie lubi" would be more appropriate.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Surkarin94

If the sentence was 'the cat likes her', so in the affirmative, the correct one should have been 'ten kot ją lubi' right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kit265264

I wrote "Ten kot je nie lubi" and was accepted without typo. But I think it is really hard to hear the difference between "je" and "jej" on the audio.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"without typo"? That's definitely a typo, or in fact as this is another form of a pronoun, I'd consider it 'just wrong'... There is no mistake on the list of accepted answers.

I hear "jej" clearly with both voices, besides, that sentence is just incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MuhamadAmi270876

"jej" can be a bit confusing. Sometimes it can be used as possessive pronounce, sometimes it can be used in this sentence example. Challenging grammar concept, I must say but interesting to study.

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