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  5. "You must learn to listen to …

"You must learn to listen to the teacher."

Translation:Rhaid i ti ddysgu gwrando ar yr athro.

June 3, 2016

12 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/meilonn

In what instances would you soften the beginning of a verb?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rmcode
Mod
  • 2005

One of the most common is after a preposition.

In this example 'i'

The first part of the sentence is 'Nesessity for learning' = 'Rhaid i ddysgu' with a softening after the 'i'

We put the pronoun (or name) in to give it context but that doesn't change the effect on the verb.

An more obvious example of softening after a preposition would be 'Dw i'n mynd i ddysgu' = 'I am going to learn'

There are a number of other prepositions that soften a following verb, it's best to learn them in context rather than in isolation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/david_smith_ii

So I put "gwrando i'r athro", literally translating "to" and was wrong of course, but I wonder... if kids were misbehaving while the teacher was out of the room, would they tell each other "gwrando i'r athro" i.e. listen for the teacher?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marc41177

On "You must learn to forget" I used "ddysgu i anghofio" and it was accepted. Here, however "ddysgu i wrando ar" wasn't.

How do we know when to use "i" before a verb-noun, and when not to?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Margaret885737

Diddorol....wonder why there's that discrepancy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ibisc

There is no dysgu i. Whatever is being learned/taught generally follows directly after dysgu with no preposition.

  • Mae hi'n dysgu Almaeneg. - She is learning German.

Prepositions may be needed in related patterns:

  • Dysgodd hi Siân i yrru. - She taught Siân to drive
  • Roedd hi'n dysgu mewn ysgol. - She was teaching at a school.
  • Roedd hi'n dysgu Cymraeg i siaradwyr Sbaeneg ym Mhatagonia. - She was teaching Welsh to Spanish speakers in Patagonia.
  • Dw i'n dysgu sut i bobi. - I am learning how to bake.
  • dysgu am rywbeth - learning about something

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChrisJohn720252

Yes I'm also confused about the apparent random allocation of "i" before verb-nouns. Also why "gwrando AR yr athro" when "ar" means "on", not "to"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/david_smith_ii

"i" before verb nouns is at least partly determined by what comes before... mynd i, but dod o. Also whether to introduce a clause with i+VN vs bod - we have that confusion in English too and native speakers have no trouble navigating it, but I would be hard pressed to explain my choice sometimes.

Another one I have trouble with is whether to use "o" vs relying on the genitive structure - because they seem to have the same meaning to me - but fluent Welsh speakers clearly know which to use in a given situation.

The thing about gwrando ar etc. is that verbs take specific prepositions for specific meanings. Essentially, the preposition doesn't mean anything, but instead marks the case of the noun that follows. (There are other situations where the meaning of preposition is important - so this really is confusing).

gwrando and gwylio take ar for the object of the listening or watching.

mynd takes i for the place you're going or action you're going to do, but â for the person/thing you're taking with you.

edrych takes am for the thing you're looking for, but ar for the thing you're looking at - and of course that shows that we do the same thing in English: look for vs. look at.

I'm still learning which preposition to use in many cases - the above are just a few that I have nailed down pretty well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChrisJohn720252

Thanks David for taking time to give this excellent explanation. (I find it annoying that I am forever falling over the minor issues like correct prepositions, articles and mutations, whilst getting the principal grammar correct!)

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