Will we see a Malaysian Course after Indonesian?
This is not a normal post just asking for Malaysian. Plenty of people ask for languages all the time. I was just wondering if given how close Malaysian and Indonesian are in mutual intelligability. If Duolingo may decide they don't need a Malaysian course if they have a Indonesian course.
I hope this is not the case because recently I have found myself more interested in Malaysia (But not neccesarily Indonesia) and would like to learn Malaysian. It should be a rather easy course to make after Indonesian is completed, assuming they use Indonesian as a template, I do seriously hope thay add them as seperate languages though. Do you think we may see a Malaysian course in the future? Is anyne here interested in Malaysian?
Considering that the course blurb says 'after this course, you’ll also be understood by Indonesian and Malay speakers in East Timor, Malaysia and Brunei', it doesn't look likely, at least in the short term.
Also consider that Indonesian was started after the completion of the reverse course, and there is no English for Malay speakers course.
You would speak Indonesian, and you'll also be understood...
But consider this:
"The Indonesian and Standard Malay forms of the Malay language are generally mutually intelligible, but differ in spelling, pronunciation, and vocabulary."
Some differences here:
Indonesian differs from Standard Malay in the quantity of loanwords from Javanese, Dutch, and other languages. For example, the word for 'post office' in Malaysia is "pejabat pos" (in Indonesia this means 'post officer'), whereas in Indonesia it is "kantor pos", from the Dutch word for office, kantoor. There are also some Portuguese influences: in Indonesia, Christmas is known as "Natal", whereas Malaysia uses "Krismas", derived from English (or in some cases also "Natal", due to Indonesian influence). Pronunciation of some loanwords in Standard Malay follows English, while some in Indonesian follows Dutch, for example Malay "televisyen" (from English: television) and Indonesian "televisi" (from Dutch: televisie), the "-syen" and "-si" also prevail in some other words. There are also instances where the Malay version derives from English pronunciation while the Indonesian version takes its cue from Latin. The Latin preference of the (older) Indonesian intellectuals in these instances may be ascribed to the influence of their classical-oriented education when Gymnasium schools were established during the Dutch colonial period : compare Malay kualiti, kuantiti, majoriti, minoriti and universiti with Indonesian kualitas, kuantitas, mayoritas, minoritas and universitas.
Also, some Malaysians refer to Malay as a purer language, while Indonesians refer to Bahasa Melayu as a regional language, spoken for Malays (the most in Sumatra), between other aspects.
Now, I think the only problem are the differences between the dialects of Malay, because Malays do not speak an official language:
"Both Malay and Indonesian come from Johor-Riau dialect. British and Dutch 'add' more colours to Malay and Indonesian respectively."
"Malay has many dialects that can be divided nto 4 main dialects and each of them breaks into another dialect. 1. Northern (used in northern of Peninsula Malaysia. Eg : Kedahan dialect) 2. Eastern Coast (used in Kelantan, Terengganu, Pahang and South Thailand. Example : Kelantanese) 3. Southern (used in southern Peninsula Malaysia. Example: Malaccan) 4. East Malaysia (used in East Malaysia. Example : Sabah, Sarawakian, Bruneian)".
The text above is from another discussion in Duolingo a year ago: (https://www.duolingo.com/comment/8457960)
Finally, I have seen many loanwords from Dutch in Indonesian, and some others from English and Arabic but I cannot say that the loanwords are the same in Malay. I think these languages cannot be compared with other analogies from Europe, India, China or Africa. There is no example of comparison. But I can really feel happy to learn the course of Indonesian and perhaps, be understood by a portion of Malaysians and people from other relative countries. =)
I'm a native Malay speaker, Malay and Indonesian are very close. Based from other people's comparison with Scandinavian languages including German and Dutch, Malay and Indonesian are much closer than that. Most Malays would understand Indonesians and vice versa just fine. Some people would even consider them as a single language but with different accents. But, Malay and Indonesian are two different language. Both came from the same root but evolved differently on their way. They may sound a bit similar but they're not, many words seem similar but Malays pronounce words a bit differently especially words that end or with vowels while Indonesian seems more phonetic. About Malay course, it's definitely great if they make it. I'm sure people would understand about the differences between Malay and Indonesian more if the two courses are created, since there has been a lot of confusions about these two languages. Feel free to ask me if anybody have any question about Malay or Indonesian I'll try my best to answer :)
So it is like Norwegian and Danish? Or even like Brazilian and European Portuguese? If it is like Urdu and Hindi then I can just learn the grammar and basic vocab using the duolingo indonesian course and learn the advanced stuff with Malaysian materials.
I would say the comparison is like Norwegian and Danish but in terms of writing. Norwegian Bokmal is based from Danish and if you put them side by side they look almost identical, and it is like European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese that's one of the closest example you could say.
It really is a political divide then. Duolingo Indonesian+lots of Malaysian let's plays will do.
He is saying that doing the Duolingo Indonesian course and then watching "Let's plays" or videos where people play games, done by Malaysians will work for learning Malaysian
Well, although I'm not entirely sure whether that would work for most people but most Malays understand Indonesian because we expose ourselves to it, we watch shows, movies, and listen to songs I do all of these when I was young. So I would say it would work.
I don't think they would deny a language because it is close to another language. Look at Norwegian and Swedish and Danish and Dutch and German. Another set would be Spanish and Portuguese and Catalan and French and Italian. What Duolingo would need are volunteers, who know Malay and another language to learn it from, who are willing to spend the time and effort and apply to the incubator. If you know anyone send them here: https://incubator.duolingo.com/apply I am assuming that you mean "Bahasa Melayu" as there are many languages spoken in Malaysia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia#Language
Meanwhile check this out:
Your example of Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, Dutch and German is not representative to how close Indonesian and Malaysian are. With the first three, some native speakers of those languages cannot understand native speakers of another, whilst most struggle. Whilst the actual spelling is quite similar, the pronunciation is what throws people off (cough Danish cough). As for German and Dutch, German speakers generally struggle to understand written Dutch, and spoken Dutch can only be partially understood when spoken slowly. Indonesian and Malaysian can be understood between speakers when they speak full speed, and no slowing down is needed. They don't even need to learn the spelling conventions of the other.
Yes, I hesitated to put Danish in, but I felt that pronunciation aside, it is not sooo different.
Do you feel that Malaysian to Indonesian is closer than British English and American English? I really don't know the two languages very much.
Keep in mind that many people in Malaysia do speak Indonesian. Are they really speaking Malaysian instead of Indonesian with that same ease?
I'm going to be picky here, and say that Norwegian is even harder than Danish for native Swedish speakers to understand (but weirdly enough, I can understand Norwegian without an issue).
As for Malaysian and Indonesian being closer than British English and American English, I think that they are about the same. American English has certain differences in spelling and vocabulary, as do Malaysian and Indonesian. They are perhaps a tad more distant (Malaysian and Indonesian), and would equate more to the difference between Irish English and American English.
http://blog.fxtrans.com/2011/02/differences-between-malaysian-and.html and yet the differences include the difference of English and Arabic influence in Malaysia with Portuguese and Dutch influence in Indonesia. I think the biggest problem is that standard Malaysia is not necessarily what each person actually usually speaks. There are so many local dialects in Malaysia. These two languages may have started out similar and both being standardized may have come to the same conclusions of which words more people would know. There are still differences. It will be interesting to see how this works out in the long run. Perhaps a different dialect within Malaysia may be more worth learning? We need to hear from some native speakers!
The way I understand it, Indonesian and Malay are standardized registers of a single language - much like Hindi and Urdu or even various dialects of English around the world, the differences are more political than practical.
You don't really need a separate course. They're about as different as US English vs UK English. Or maybe like Brazilian vs European Portuguese.
Linguists consider them two standardised versions of the same language.
My father was fluent in Indonesian, he never really considered Malay and Indonesian to be different languages. Whether he was in Jakarta or Singapore or KL... He was 100% understood and could have completely normal conversation.
As for me, I'd like to see a Malay version of Duolingo to teach foreign languages to Malay speakers. When we build an English course for Malay speakers would we make a Malay course for English speakers simultaneously?