"Ta pani nie jest w naszej grupie."

Translation:This lady is not in our group.

June 6, 2016

This discussion is locked.


I'm curious about something. If it is correct to say "Ta pani nie jest w naszej grupie" but we wouldn't say "Ta pani nie jest w domu" and instead would write "Tej pani nie ma w domu", could you say "Tej pani nie ma w naszej grupie"?


Hmmm. Good question. I think that it might be because 'being in the group' is not technically about being somewhere physically. "Tej pani nie ma w naszej grupie" sounds okay, although a bit as if you were expecting her to be.


(Pardon the intrusion, but this exchange caught my eye for an unrelated reason. If you are feeling charitable, please indulge me for a moment as I ask about a side issue. If not, then just ignore it.)

I'm confused -- why wouldn't we say "Ta pani nie jest w domu?" "Tej pani nie ma w domu" is better? It doesn't make any sense. (Nor does "Tej pani nie ma w naszej grupie" for that matter.)

"Ta pani nie jest w domu." "This woman is not (at) home." -- makes sense. "Tej [why the change from "ta"] pani nie ma w domu." "This [?] woman does not have [in? at? on?] home." --- does not make sense ""Tej [?] pani nie ma w naszej grupie." "This woman does not have [in, at, on] our group." --- ???

This isn't a criticism, it is a question from someone who is struggling to learn the cases (and what they mean). What are these second and third sentences saying and why are they worded it in that way? Why is the first one wrong and the second one right? (I expected it to be the other way around: first is correct, second is ... strange. The third is also strange, and neither it nor the second one are comprehendible.)

(Again, apologies for the intrusion.)


Nie ma is about (unwanted) absence from something, whereas nie jest is about everything else.

  • To urządzenie nie jest w dobrym stanie = The device is not in a good condition (it's not literally absent from anything).

  • Tego urządzenia nie ma w sklepie. = There is no such device in the store (it's literally physically absent).

I believe that both nie ma w naszej grupie and nie jest w naszej grupie are acceptable, but I'd say that the latter is more likely, since "group" is a rather abstract term and less commonly refers to a gathering of people. But with "group" it's possible that the same situation may be interpreted both ways.


seriously, this is driving me insane but i'm pretty sure polish DOES NOT make such a clear distinction between 'this' and 'that' as english does....my polish fiancee can confirm this!


Okay, okay, hold your horses. Yes, this was something noticed after some time, that both versions should probably be accepted in most contexts. But so far seems like no one had time to do that in the whole course, which after all is constructed from thousands of sentences. I reported those that you commented on and now it's the contributors' decision to make. So yeah, I guess you are right, and it probably will gradually be changed, but maybe for the sake of your sanity you should consider focusing on 'this' instead of 'that'?


Polish does have a clear distinction between "ta" and "tamta", it's just that the distinction is different than between "this" and "that", so that can be translated to both "ta or "tamta", while "ta" can be "thia" or "that".

basically it's: this, that that ta, ta, tamta

if you are marked wrong in a sentence like this. please report next time. In most sentences both this and that should be accepted as translation of ta.


Locative case?


Yes indeed.


Please, are "naszej" and "grupie" in the locative case?


Yes, they are. "w" meaning "in" takes Locative.


Ah ok.

I was thinking "this is the first time I'vve seen negated instrumental taking genetive"

Even though I fully know that only negated accusative takes genetive. But then I just couldn't work out why it was in genetive then.

Got it now!


Genitive would be "naszej grupy" though ;)


"This lady is not part of our group" was rejected. Is "part of" not appropriate here without a literal translation of some kind?


Well, it's a similar sentence, but we tend to keep to the literal translations as long as they're correct in English. Your sentence is "Ta pani nie jest częścią naszej grupy".


She is not in our group was not accepted


Because 'ta pani' is not the same as 'ona'.


I keep putting "this lady is not a member of our group", and getting it wrong. I hope I remember the right version next time.


Well, it's quite different grammatically and sounds somewhat more official, but let's add it anyway.

Btw, the direct translation of your suggestion would be: "Ta pani nie jest członkiem/członkinią naszej grupy".

Learn Polish in just 5 minutes a day. For free.