Has absolutely nothing changed in over a year?
I want to start off by saying that this is not intended to be a rant towards the Duolingo staff, but rather an open discussion with a bit of complaining.
As you can see, I have been using Duolingo for a very long time, learning several languages. Amazing application, hands down 100%. Duolingo's approach is just fantastic, and obviously, the most complete set of language learning tools.
I stopped using Duolingo, eventually (losing a 150 day streak), and sort of lost the motive to continue learning with Duolingo. It simply just got repetitive and boring. I decided to just go out in the real world more, and rely a lot less on Duolingo.
However, he is where my issue is...
Duolingo doesn't seem to be doing anything to introduce new features!
Lingot Store Why, after a year and a half, are there still only like 2 or 3 items that can be purchased? Seriously, why do I have 4k lingots just sitting there for nothing.
Games/Courses Without being too negative, the selection still sucks! Could you at least bring back the old word practice mode? Maybe bring back the hearts mode?
Nothing really seems to have changed AT ALL O.O I honestly cannot tell a single difference in Duolingo a year ago to today... I know more language support has been added, but, to be realistic, most people are going to only stick with one, two, and maybe three languages in most cases. The reality is, that while yes you definitely need new language support, there is HARDLY any new lessons available in ratio to the amount of time that has passed. This point here could be a bit unfair, so, I give you that benefit of the doubt, but seriously... Not even a new design? Nothing? Maybe there is some sort of beta group that I am not apart of?
Friend feature Still pretty basic. Given that this is a language learning site, and people rely so heavily on the discussion form, I am surprised that I still can't even reliably connect with other language learners and interact with them on Duolingo.com . O.o In addition to that, I still can only see like 5 notifications. What if I get six friend requests before I check? How do I find the friends to connect without hunting down a list of people?
Nonetheless, as you can obviously see, I am back once again and loving Duolingo. However, I feel like it's going to get repetitive all over again.
PS: Please allow me to make this clear. I am NOT demanding an overhual on Duolingo in anyway, nor being ungrateful of it's free nature. Nobody is asking for free stuff. As a consumer, I am simply providing feedback as to why I PERSONALLY left Duolingo. Not why anyone else has. Thanks (:
How do others feel about this?
Lingots, streaks, XP's and levels: the main reason is to motivate. And it works: there is a hall of fame for each of them. The most usefull way to use lingots is to give them away to people helping other students.
You can practice words with the 'Duolingo Vocabulary Manager'. The hearts mode is still there in the 'test out' function.
There are not only new languages and new courses. Existing courses have new lessons and skills. New voices are introduced. Many courses are working on a tree 2.0 version.
You can connect with other learners in your profile. You have also the email notification. The max notification of 5 is motivating to use DL each day and look at the new discussion where you can help other students.
Duolingo will not give many options you can choose, because DL would be to complex for some / new users and the maintenance cost woild be too high.
There are many options you can choose with user scripts, like the 'Duolingo Vocabulary Manager',
Duolingo Stats, Duoling Reverse Tree Enhancer, DuoDirectLinks, Duolingo Course Progress, Duolingo, Duolingo ReviewTrim tree, DuoLessonsFix, DuoProfile, Duo-Blog, ..
Not all scripts works in all browsers and / or all courses.
You already made the point I came here to make, that new language courses have been added and existing ones reworked.
Just to give some details: 15 new courses have been released in beta since June 2015. So although some other courses seem like they're growing roots in the alpha phase, there has really been a lot of new material published.
Yeah, I think lots of people take the number of courses Duolingo keeps producing too much for granted. It's actually rather amazing.
I think one reason for it is that Duolingo increased the pace at which new courses were started a lot some time in 2015 or so. It seemed like the Incubator was a machine that was just going to churn out new courses at an ever increasing pace.
Then some of those courses stalled for various reasons, Duolingo seemed to focus more on other things such as schools and its finances, and now there doesn't seem to be the same kind of urgency about publishing even pretty much ready courses, never mind starting new ones.
So while objectively, a lot of things have been achieved and are being done, subjectively, especially for those looking for some specific thing to happen, "nothing" has changed... :-)
I'm not taking away from that fact ... I appreciate them adding new languages like Russian since I have left.
But the problem is, as a consumer, nothing has changed for me personally . Let's be realistic -- from a business standpoint, we all know, that's really all that matters. Consumers don't care how others are using the app. They care how THEMSELVES are using it.
Unless you are learning like 10 languages, it's repetitive. Now, I have noticed that there are several new courses, but, I don't really see very many for my specific language, which as a consumer, is really what matters, right?
You are not a paying customer, a consumer, from a business standpoint. You are like a person that attends church regularly but never puts any money in the plate, yet complains that they always use the same hymns. ;) Duo is trying to establish a broader base of users, not expend resources adding bells and whistles for people that are already here. Duo is interested in its own issues, and has little interest in placating any of us as individuals. Duo has done a lot of testing, and that is why hearts are gone and the site is less "gamey." If they can get ten million more users learning English from Hindi, they don't care much what we think. Complaining about things in the lingot store, friend request notifications, change for its own sake, and games is being petty, I think. Duo has limited resources and they get to decide how to use them. As a consumer, you can walk out the door if you don't like their decisions.
This is a bit short sighted. It is a valid argument to look at this like a customer / retailer scenario. The difference is that it's not a money for goods or services swap, but it is a knowledge exchange (which is monetised in other ways).
Duolingo gets just as much from the free client base as the free courses give to users. So it is not one way. And as a user who has contributed content, usage and feedback, that is my currency and justifies the expectation of improvement.
I agree with some of what the Op is saying. I think there is little point having some of these features (like lingots) if you're not gonna develop them. Just drop them then. Having a halfway house of a pretty poor store and the user having to find new but limited use for them is pretty pointless.
Duo makes big thing of A/B testing. So why have these features if they don't enhance the learning experience? Why have a streak if people blatantly prioritise this over learning?
So I agree, develop these things or get rid of them. The OP is perfectly entitled to give this sort of feedback, and more should.
IDK Where people are getting this idea of free stuff. This is not a communist post.. I have already stated over and over nobody wants anything for free. Did you even read the FULL post, or just bits and pieces?
I would GLADLY pay for MORE services.
PS: I am sure that if Duolingo staff had that attitude about people providing feedback, they'd have a hard time maintaining learners. lOl.
This says that the courses for English speakers that are in the incubator right now are already being prepared much longer than the previous ones. I'm not sure what may be the reason for that.
You'd think though, that after a year and a half, we could at LEAST purchase a new item from the lingot store. Hell, they even still have the EXACT same outfits.
But isn't that mode available ONLY if you have not completed the course? What if I have already finished it ?
I do see new courses, and are grateful for them.
4.Yay, more spam in my inbox that already gets 2million emails a day? Doesn't sound useful. Plus, most people are too lazy to scroll through hundreds of emails to simply find a notification.
I probably get over 50 a day and I'll scroll through all of them. I can't STAND having a messy inbox. :)
Some people are very OCD with their inbox, but, most people only use email because they have to (most websites require you to have one). :p
I do organize from time to time, but, I don't really need more of a mess to clean at said time :p
Nonetheless, it's not really a big deal, just a personal preference.
I feel that you have not been on long enough to see any real changes and that your expectations are far too unrealistic.
In that case, would you kindly point out any changes you have noticed, because I fail to find them...
(Besides more courses and languages, nothing has changed).
PS: I don't believe wanting at least one more item to purchase from the lingot store within 1.5 years time span is "unrealistic". In fact, it's very realistic. IDK of really any marketplaces of any kind that have kept only 3 items over the span of several years... O.o
They've had other priorities. The lingot store is hardly the main point of this website. Anyway, most of the Duolingo experience is for someone who wants to learn one language from the beginning. Granted, many of us who post here learn more than one, but the lingot store is fine from the POV of someone who comes here just to learn Spanish or German and then leave when they finish the course. I only have thousands of lingots because I've done several courses over several years. I don't expect Duolingo to cater to me when I am not the demographic they are going for.
I think the host of new courses is way more important than some digital trinkets.
If you are unhappy with Duolingo, go elsewhere. If you are bored and don't want to learn any more new languages, Duolingo probably is done for you. It is a good way to get up to an intermediate level. If you feel you have done that in your 4 languages, it is probably time to move on elsewhere more advanced. That said, the German tree has had an update and the Dutch tree has a new voice. There have definitely been things happening.
I'm not sure that you read my post, but, I am not asking for an overhual -- nor for them to cater to me.
I think an additional learning course TYPE over the span of several years is hardly asking for them to cater to me. You completely missed my point here.
Additionally, how can ANY service improve if people are not allowed to ask for their opinion? It's not even like I am asking them to give me free stuff. I am willing to pay for more courses from Duolingo. If I wanted to pay other sites, I would use them at my own free will. Simple.
PS: At the end of the day, I have not DEMANDED anything at any point. As a Duolingo consumer, I have every right to make suggestions for a better experience. We all do.
People give their opinions here on this message board all the time. You're hardly the first, so that's not the issue.
Those of us who haven't been away for a year and a half know that Duolingo tends to use a/b testing instead of opinions to see how people learn best and their model is to keep things free so it's for everyone whether rich or poor around the world. I mean, are you an expert on education? Most people aren't. People's opinions may not always connect with how they actually learn best, so Duolingo does not appear to use them as the main way they change things.
You can make suggestions, sure. You have. You're allowed, just as people are allowed to respond to them as they see fit within the rules of the site.
I don't see how Duolingo introducing a paid course would have any effect on it's "free nature" as long as Duolingo didn't take away from the free courses to pump up the paid course.
Quite frankly, I don't see how there is a single issue in asking someone to allow me to give them my money for exchange of a service they ALREADY provide and some additions to it .
I've been in several a/b tests, and that's why I asked if any were going on... However, I have yet to see anyone identify even at least one a/b that introduces a new "feature".
The fact of the matter is, no matter how great ANYTHING is, if it remains the same over a period of 5+ years, it WILL get boring to the average user
I'm not at all sure Duolingo wants to retain the average user for five years. It may be quite happy getting people to a low intermediate level in however many languages they happen to be interested in that Duo teaches, and then letting them move on to more advanced resources.
(For instance, consider that Duolingo has ceased to develop Immersion, which is the only language-learning feature that it has which can really get people beyond a low-intermediate level - at least as readers. Duolingo is also in the process of conducting an A/B test comparing people with Immersion to people without - which suggests that Duo may be thinking of removing it entirely.)
If Duolingo wants to focus on a particular niche, that is its right.
I don't remember making the lingot store a main focus in my post, but ok lOl.
Right, but, the post is clearly focused on the lack of course features and types. The lingot store was a mere suggestion, so why make it seem as if it were as big of a deal as you made it ?
Nonetheless, I don't think suggesting another outfit in a years time is asking for too much. And again, it is a suggestion, not a mandatory instruction O.o
That's pretty obvious, but, with having that said - Why have only three items?
Let's say that this doesn't even matter.... The point is that I have 4k lingots, why?
I can give them away, but, only one at a time. Who will sit and give away 4k lingots, one by one? I earn way more than I could possibly give away, so again, why do I even have them?
Well, that's definitely a step!
Does the plugin DL Tweaks no longer work for chrome?
I used the 'duo more lingots' to give you more lingots in two clicks.
I use the DL tweaks for chrome, most of them are working still.
I hope you have a nice time on Duolingo and maybe you can help other students which have to go a long way before they have the same level as you.
:( It really made Duolingo pretty cool, but, even that is not working anymore . I've tried two PC's.
In spanish we say ''A caballo regalado no se le busca colmillo'' meaning that you cannot be too sneaky when something is given to you free, Duolingo is completely free, and it's too awesome for what it is. Yes, the site needs a lot of improvement but again, it's free.
Hah, if google translator is not misleading me than in Polish we have the_very_same proverb!
that's interesting! Given the fact that both are pretty much unrelated languages apart from being indo-european. I wonder how it came to be.
Oh, we have it in Finnish (which isn't even Indo-European), too: Ei ole lahjahevosen suuhun katsomista. And it exists in English: Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
I guess a good proverb gets around when people from different cultures and languages meet. :-)
I've read somewhere that the origin of this proverb is that horses' teeth keep growing, so that an old horse has long teeth (which is where the English saying "being a little long in the tooth" comes from...). So if you're given a horse, don't offend the gift giver by straight away checking whether it's an old one!
The Portuguese version is "A cavalo dado não se olha o dente" and although I know exactly what it means I had no idea what was the reason behind it. Thank you!
No, the English phrase about being long in the tooth derives from the fact that as we get older our gums recede, thus showing more of the tooth.
It comes from the introduction of St. Jerome’s commentary on St. Paul’s letter to the Ephesians (my boldface to highlight the proverb):
Non digne Graeca in Latinum transfero: aut Graecos lege (si eiusdem linguae habes scientiam); aut si tantum Latinus es, noli de gratuito munere iudicare, et, ut vulgare proverbium est: Equi dentes inspicere donati.
so it dates back at least to the Latin of the early 5th century AD.
My reply above referred to the caballo regalado / “gift horse” proverb, not the “long in the tooth” expression.
If I think about the changes I've seen over the past year, the first thing that comes to mind is the amount of effort and development that have gone into the "schools" side of Duolingo. Many people have suggested that there should be more development for advanced "regular" users, but I think Duo is more interested in extending the number of bi- or multi-lingual learners in the world.
I have not really checked the school section, so you could be right ! If so, it's a bit disappointing. I don't blame them for taking the approach, though (if this is the case).
The problem I have with this, is, most people are NOT tri+ lingual, and could care less to be (Or rather careless about putting in the effort)...
If their target audience is people speaking 3+ languages, that's a major problem....
Where did you get "Duo's target audience is trilinguals" out of Macjory's post?
"bi-lingual/multi-lingual learners" would suggest that the learner is already bi-lingual.... Otherwise, he would not be a bilingual learner..... O.o
"Duo is more interested in extending the number of bi- or multi-lingual learners in the world" means that Duo wants to EXPAND that number, by providing its service, Duo, to mono-lingual users (or even bilingual users who want to take up a third language, etc). Did you misread it as "Duo is only interested in reaching people who are already bi- or multi-lingual"?
From a business aspect, I highly doubt that the creators of duolingo are just sitting around, smoking cigars in the meeting room and congratulating each other on a 'job well-done'. Odds are that they are constantly thinking about new aspects or changes to add to the site and how to implement them.
I really don't think the problem is that they're just too lazy to do anything; I think we just can't see the changes because what they're changing is important to them and their business as opposed to what's important to us (e.g., clothes for the virtual bird, a PM system.)
Honestly, I've seen duolingo as a pretty good starting place for learning a language. I didn't come here expecting to learn everything in the world. If you want more lessons, I suggest Memrise or even pick up a dictionary and create some Quizlets with new words that you learn! Quizlet has a couple of games that you can play, and though it'd be great to see something on Duo, too, you can control the words that you add to the Quizlet, which gives you even more freedom, in my opinion.
Additionally, there are many websites where you can chat with friends. Duolingo is a language-learning website. Yes, there is a discussion area and a way to message people on their profiles, but it's not supposed to be an IM Platform.
However, I do have to say: Duolingo, please make it easier to write answers to posts on computer! No matter how many paragraphs I start, it automatically lumps them up into one big paragraph, and nobody wants to read that!
But the problem is I don't want to use a bunch of services. I'd much rather stick to Duolingo, as it's definitely the best one out there. I really don't understand why adding a few features over the course of 5 years is such a burden on the company ? O.o
I can understand that; I would love to see some new features, too.
But I like to think that everybody has a reason for doing something, and when I don't understand somebody else's side or point of view, I like to think about why they might be acting the way that they are.
In this case, I think that the company /must/ have a reason for not adding features, even if I can't see it at the moment.
I do hope that they have been thinking, at least, about new features to add to the site, but until then, I guess I'll just work on getting through my tree, haha.
EDIT: While I understand your love for duolingo (it's my favourite language-learning site, too!), I think that you'll learn much more if you use other services as well.
A great soup needs plenty of ingredients. Maybe you want it to be predominantly Duolingo-flavoured, but sometimes that soup needs a little something else to make it taste even better, in the end.
You're exactly right! I really probably should explore other services as well. I read somewhere that our minds retain information much more easily if it's remembers the data from multiple locations. I assume the same concept applies to digital learning services. :p
I haven't been using this site for very long, but I can see myself getting to a level where it could get repetitive but I guess they can't cover the whole of every language on a free website.
Just doing one course gets a bit boring after a while once you've finished it (and truly learned the material in it, which may happen while you learn it, or like in my case, only after you've been practicing for a while after that). Some people really enjoy the collaborative translation part of the website called Immersion, and learn a lot more from that, but I never enjoyed it much and it's not even being offered to everyone at the moment.
But there are many ways of continuing to learn after one has finished one course: doing "the reverse course" (for example, English for French speakers after finishing French for English speakers), "laddering" courses (I did Spanish for French speakers after having finished French for English speakers -- it was a fun challenge, and good for my French, too), picking a completely different language to learn... Or one can just move on to other resources once one's covered what Duolingo has to offer.
Dúo falta los recursos necesarios para hechar muchas cosas a sus usuarios. El más importante es que no tiene la plata. Personalmente, no dependo de dúo por todos mis estudios....
No entiendo qué "es que tiene la plata" significa. ¿Habla usted inglés?
I do believe there's a lot to be improved, but at the moment Duolingo have been having a tough time financially. If they add these features the most common issue would be the problem of higher bills. Though, putting that aside, I do think they need to focus on a 1-1 instant chat feature, which would be more useful for conversations than clogging up the stream. Keep the stream, but only use it for common messages. I also think there needs to be more in the store, this has been an issue for a while ever since 2013, there is so much that could be there. Yes, Duolingo hasn't changed from the past year, I've only recently came back on it from 2014 or 2015 and nothing has changed apart from some new languages which are good, but if you want to concentrate on one language for example German, there is literally nothing new. It will get better though.
but if you want to concentrate on one language for example German, there is literally nothing new
The German tree was vastly expanded in October 2015, which looks like it happened since you came back on it.
Right, and it's already been established that we know Duolingo has added courses.
My question is other than new sentences, what has Duolingo changed?
I wasn't replying to you, I was replying to someone who stated that "there is literally nothing new" for German learners specifically since 2014, which is blatantly wrong, since we got a huge update to the course in 2015.
Expanding the German tree is not an "added course". It is an expansion to a current course.
And it was far beyond simply adding "new sentences" (which has not been established elsewhere in this thread as far as I can tell). It added more skills/levels, reworked lots of others, and yes, added vocab.
Furthermore, there's been talk of "tree expansion" for other languages. Haven't seen it mentioned in a while though, so I'm not sure if it's still on the cards. I hope it is.
Again, this might not be exactly what you were talking about when you were complaining that there is no new content for people learning languages that are already on Duo (even though it is new content for people learning an existing language) — but in this case I wasn't addressing your opening post to the thread. I was contradicting Zletaye's false statement that there has been nothing new for German learners, specifically, since 2014.
Ah. In that case, I apologize for the confusion. The way the posts are organized, things can get messy quickly :p
No worries! I'm used to nested posts from elsewhere, but the layout can definitely get confusing.
You said that there has been literally nothing new for German speakers since 2014, and this is objectively wrong. The expanded tree gave us plenty of new content (unless you were off by when you estimate you came back to the forum by somewhere between three months and two years).
If what you meant is "there has been no new outfits for Duo for German speakers" or "there has been nothing new added to the lingot store", or if you'd said something like "the Turkish tree has not been expanded", then you'd be correct. But that's not what you said.
I still can only see like 5 notifications. What if I get six friend requests before I check?
You can choose to receive an email any time someone replies to a post you've written, sends a friend request, or writes on your stream (for example). I have mine going to a specific subfolder, so they don't clog up my normal inbox. That way I can check those emails in the evening, for example, and reply to people then, instead of caring about the 5 notifications.
But that is precisely why I have a problem. I DON'T want a million notifications via email. I already want to just delete my email since I get too many to keep up with. Besides, who even checks their emails for notifications? That's just more of a hassle than just having a button on the site... O.O
I'm pretty active here, and I don't get "millions' of notifications. And if I'm busy, I can just choose to ignore them because they are in their dedicated subfolder.
But hey, like with any service provided to us, we can choose to use it or not. And we can decide to offer suggestions about how it can be improved, and others can respond to those suggestions with their own opinions (which don't necessarily match our own!). But as long as we haven't paid a dime or cent for the service, we have very little standing to complain. We're not consumers, we are users of a free service.
Well, IDK about you, but, it only requires six notifications to make this an issue... I get six all the time, so, not really sure exactly how active you are (besides doing the actual courses. I'm talking interaction with people, friend requests, discussion posts, etc).