"אתה ואני."

Translation:You and I .

June 21, 2016

69 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Kelirya

I was just about to suggest it, but you were 12 hours earlier than me :) A beautiful song by Arik Einstein.

June 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/NamelessLearner

Why do the women in the video call each other אתה?

July 1, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JohnWycliffe

Because those are the words to the song. It is strange, though.

July 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/heraklesyang

Is the pronunciation supposed to be " 'ata ve-'ani " ? Why does it sound like " 'ata va-'ani " ?

June 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/DvirMoran

Native speaker here - in (very) formal speech the '-ו' "and" can have multiple pronunciations, such as "va" or "u" in addition to "ve", but in modern speech only "ve" is used, except in maybe songs or some idioms. I don't even know the rules for when (formally) each pronunciation should be used (though maybe other native speakers do, idk).

June 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/JohnWycliffe

In Sephardic representations of Biblical Hebrew (my only area of Hebrew knowledge thus far), it's ve (sheva sound) before most consonants, with the following exceptions:

Before vet, mem or fe, or before any consonant with a sheva under it, it is usually long "u" (shuruk)

Before a consonant with chataf patach (short a, dialectically either as in bat or father) it's usually va (with patach)

Before chataf segol (short e as in bed) it's usually ve (as in veterinarian)

Before chataf kamats (o as in row in Sephardic Hebrew but dialectically more of an a) it's usually va (with kamats) with a as in father.

Before yod it's sometimes vi (with hiriq, pronounced like the English name of the letter V).

Since modern Hebrew rarely uses the niqqud (vowel points) outside of scripture anyway, it's easy to see why the every-day pronunciation has simplified for certain things like this.

June 23, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/F4V9XR

Perhaps the omission of the vowel points is a sort of advance? I mean, those points were ADDED later (to the Biblical Hebrew), right?

November 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Pcoco_priest

In biblical prayer(I'm Jewish I know this stuff) you say Va before pronouns and in listing things you say vi,vi,oo___ and you would say oo only for the last thing

July 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/JohnWycliffe

Which vocalization is that based on? Because it's contrary to everything I was taught about Sephardic Hebrew.

July 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Pcoco_priest

I was taught ashkenazi prayed

July 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/JohnWycliffe

Interesting, תודה

July 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/heraklesyang

Thank you very much! תודה!

June 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/CJ.Dennis

Possibly because in quick speech, "ve-ani" would end up as "ve-yani", while "va-ani" becomes "va(!)-ani". I'm using "(!)" as a glottal stop. It's the same sound found in the middle of "uh(!)-oh!".

March 1, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/YardenNB

(Another native Hebrewer here) Bold explanation! But I think not. Just about all Hebrew speakers would say "ve-ani", and it will never sound "ve-yani". And whether we say "ve-ani" or "va-ani", none of us would pronounce a glottal stop there.

The question stands, why the speaker for Duolingo pronounced "va". In fact it sounded completely natural to me, and if I had to record it for something like Duolingo I'd also instinctively say "va", although in everyday talk I always say "ve", even if I'd speak to an auidence.

As Dvir Moran said above, the "academy" rule dictates "va" (before the א with the "a" vowel). But this is an exotic rule that I don't know well, and most Hebrew speakers know even less. So it doesn't explain my and the Duo's speaker tendency.

My theory is... we learnt it from songs! Here's one: https://youtu.be/d3TFI_2G52M?t=32 This great hit from 1975 represented Israel in an international contest; I'd expect some authorities made sure the singer pronounced everything "properly".

Here's another one: a charming medium hit from 1987: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FtMqNVH5oc (right at the beginning: "Guy, ata va-ani ve-duy" The composer of that one, the legendary Naomi Shemer, was a member of the Academy of the Hebrew Language, and surely made sure the singer would pronounce everything "properly".

And lastly: https://youtu.be/qoGurrdtz6Q?t=77 https://youtu.be/l-tRKBTJVE0?t=67 Two great hits from the same 1991 album. By then there would have been no authorities to correct the singer Gidi Gov, but he's already been an oldie who was educated to sing "right", and possibly internalized the "right" pronunciation from older songs.

September 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/YardenNB

Sorry for spamming, but I have to - my wife reminded me of the most prominent song example, the often-considered-most-beautiful Hebrew song of all times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcayUsa9yvw, listen to it all but notice 1:35, and then at 2:45, tripled!

September 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Cuteseal2

If the quick translation thing says אתה is "you are", why is this not "You are and I am?

June 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/AniKelly69

because Hebrew doesn't have/use the verb "to be" in the present tense. In English אתה is translated "you", "you are", or "are you"

June 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Gerardd88

Ahhh, another language that doesn't like to be. I've just finished Russian and haven't really got over Turkish yet and now this. Why you do this Hebrew?

June 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Pcoco_priest

Haha I've been learning Hebrew all my life and the worst part is separating words into masculine and feminine. Hebrew has all the to be verbs except in present tense. Why? Because Hebrew is like "here's a long list of rules you must learn.....here's a list of exceptions to each and every rule"

July 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Cuteseal2

Perfect, thanks for the explanation!

June 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/LobsangC

So, then, how do we know which one is called for in any given situation which I believe is more in line with what 'Cuteseal2' was asking about.

January 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Pcoco_priest

I think האם אתה is like are you/did you

July 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/JohnWycliffe

No, האם in this sense just starts a yes or no question and isn't actually translated (except in that it changes the word order and adds a question mark). אתה by itself means "are you"/"did you" in this case.

July 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Hatch_and_

If the word order the other way around, this would be Martin Buber's great book "אני ואתה" (Ich und Du / I and Thou). :)

June 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/MarksAaron
August 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Scripture.Page

"Me" is a direct object pronoun. "You and I" would be "אתה ואני", but "you and me", as direct object pronouns (since in English 'you' functions as both a subject and direct object pronoun), would be "אותך ואותי".

August 20, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/janekhaled

why there's no space between אני and ו?

December 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Scripture.Page

In Hebrew, the word 'and' is an proclitic, always attached to the beginning of the word you are adding to the list. For instance: 'dog and cat' = 'כלב וחתול'

December 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/janekhaled

thanks

December 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/JonahHarman

Why did I not get it right by saying 'You & I'

June 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/benton.1

Because you typed "&" instead of "and".

February 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/F4V9XR

Again, Does the order not matter? Or is it a "bug"?

November 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/benton.1

The order of the words in a sentence matters.

February 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/german4everyeah

What is the difference between את and אתה

January 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/benton.1

"אתה" is "you" masculine and "את" is "you" feminine.

February 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/BillAck

Seems like arabic word انت و انا

April 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/ID-007
  • 1328

Does the word 'and' exist as a separate word in modern Hebrew? Thank you.

July 12, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/ran6996

No, it doesn't

July 7, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ID-007
  • 1328

Ran, thank you for confirming the non-existence.

July 7, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ran6996

Doing my best, and aren't you learning a LOT of languages? How can you do that? :D

July 7, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ID-007
  • 1328

If you refer to finishing a LOT of DL trees, then it is true that I did that! When Immersion was around, finishing a tree gave me enough information to do translation work from many languages. Translation work is not as involved as "learning" the language... But, yes, I did learn to read, speak and write basic sentences in many languages and in some of them, I got quite advanced. Does that make sense? Of course, the story behind my answer is much longer!

July 8, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ran6996

I see, that's interesting. Do you work on the trees simultaneously? One by one? I myself wish to learn many more languages, and not so sure how to approach this.

July 9, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ID-007
  • 1328

To learn a lot of languages is not that hard IF you can learn one in each group. For example, once you learn German, it is fairly easy to 'pick up' the other Germanic languages. The same goes for the Latin (Romance) and Slavic languages... The Asian languages are a bit more complex (at least to me they seem seem so) but I find Chinese worthwhile learning because it seems to be linked to the Hebrew culture more than any other language!

July 10, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ID-007
  • 1328

I dabbled in different languages before DL was around. For me, working on multiple (related trees) is not very difficult. Usually, I do one NEW language (for example Swahili or Japanese) at a time while I practice languages that I am familiar with (for example, German, Greek, or Hebrew) at the same time. Sometimes, I spend a LOT of time in one language; other times, I spend a little bit of time in several at the same time... Languages are a hobby, so I don't have a fixed schedule and my free time varies from week to week...

July 10, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JohnWycliffe

Non-native here more familiar with ancient Hebrew, but from the modern dictionaries I've seen it's still strictly used as a prefix, unless maybe as a colloquial interjection ("Yes, and...).

July 13, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/ID-007
  • 1328

Thank you John. Google translator shows 'אֵת' as a possible word but I am looking for a native speaker to confirm it! Yes, that word can be found in some ancient Hebrew versions of Genesis 1:1, which makes it interesting as the use of 'vav' is the common form in Genesis 1. But here, I am interested in what the modern Hebrew usage is...

July 13, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/JohnWycliffe

The archaic usage of אֵת is very much different than the modern. In modern Hebrew, it is borrowed from Latin et ("and"), but in ancient Hebrew it meant to or with. Do you have any examples of manuscripts that use it for Genesis 1:1? I'd never heard of it being used there before.

July 13, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/ID-007
  • 1328

An easy one to check would be the WLC_v (v1.1): Westminster Leningrad Codex with vowels. You can find it at: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

After going through the DL Hebrew course, I wonder if the Gen 1:1 constructs I mentioned earlier are not the same as the modern version usage... Feel free to contact me directly for more details on this topic. Thanks.

July 20, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/JohnWycliffe

Ah, well, את here is the definite direct object marker, which is not translated into English. I thought you meant the use of et meaning and. Here ו means and.

July 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Scripture.Page

The word 'גם' means 'also', which could function as the word 'and'. However, 'גם' usually appears with the 'ו' in front of it: גם כלב וגם חתול

December 11, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/ID-007
  • 1328

VenerableOrigen, Thank you kindly. Happy Holidays and enjoy the lingot!

December 11, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/ronaldo623

Is it va-ani or ve-ani?

February 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JohnWycliffe

The first one.

February 5, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/YardenNB

"va-ani" is correct by the formal "academy" rules, Hebrew speakers would invariably say "ve-ani". See my very long comment above with my theory on why the Duolingo speaker pronounced "va-ani".

September 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/chelseawei11

Why does it always correct at/atah like its the same thing and it doesnt specify the gender

June 29, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Drake774706

You and i

August 25, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/AbbyYeger

I put the and sign(&) it was wrong

November 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/pIQk13

You and " me", not "I"

February 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/MiaP7

easy

December 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Jhones930810

Why, I don't understand!

July 18, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/yamit532474

It's better to say you and me and not you and I

October 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Pcoco_priest

The English translations is grammatically incorrect. It's you and me(one of the few cases where you say "me" and not "I"

July 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/JohnWycliffe

No, it isn't. You use "me" for the direct or indirect object, not for the subject. To know for sure which you should use, take out the other personal pronoun. You don't say "me am going to the store" so you don't say "you and me are going to the store" - you say "you and I."

http://www.betterwritingskills.com/tip-w026.html

The example in this lesson is not a sentence, but the accusative/dative "me" would look different in Hebrew, so we know it's nominative. For example, "you love me" would be אתה אוהב אותי, where אותי means "me." The dative is formed from the preposition ל־ and takes the form לי for "to/for me."

July 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/nancypundsack

Then why does it have a period? Does every phrase or word have a period?

October 11, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/JohnWycliffe

It's up to the course creators whether to use a period for fragments. Some courses do, some don't. I don't remember specifically for most of them, but I think the Welsh course doesn't.

October 12, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/ID-007
  • 1328

Both are correct DEPENDING on the context. Examples:

  1. Who is going skiing? You and I.
  2. Who is this cake for? You and me.

HTH, Daniel

August 18, 2016
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