"אתה ואני."

Translation:You and I .

June 21, 2016

72 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/heraklesyang

Is the pronunciation supposed to be " 'ata ve-'ani " ? Why does it sound like " 'ata va-'ani " ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DvirMoran

Native speaker here - in (very) formal speech the '-ו' "and" can have multiple pronunciations, such as "va" or "u" in addition to "ve", but in modern speech only "ve" is used, except in maybe songs or some idioms. I don't even know the rules for when (formally) each pronunciation should be used (though maybe other native speakers do, idk).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hrafnunga

In Sephardic representations of Biblical Hebrew (my only area of Hebrew knowledge thus far), it's ve (sheva sound) before most consonants, with the following exceptions:

Before vet, mem or fe, or before any consonant with a sheva under it, it is usually long "u" (shuruk)

Before a consonant with chataf patach (short a, dialectically either as in bat or father) it's usually va (with patach)

Before chataf segol (short e as in bed) it's usually ve (as in veterinarian)

Before chataf kamats (o as in row in Sephardic Hebrew but dialectically more of an a) it's usually va (with kamats) with a as in father.

Before yod it's sometimes vi (with hiriq, pronounced like the English name of the letter V).

Since modern Hebrew rarely uses the niqqud (vowel points) outside of scripture anyway, it's easy to see why the every-day pronunciation has simplified for certain things like this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pcoco_priest

In biblical prayer(I'm Jewish I know this stuff) you say Va before pronouns and in listing things you say vi,vi,oo___ and you would say oo only for the last thing


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hrafnunga

Which vocalization is that based on? Because it's contrary to everything I was taught about Sephardic Hebrew.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pcoco_priest

I was taught ashkenazi prayed


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hrafnunga

Interesting, תודה


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/heraklesyang

Thank you very much! תודה!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eshalev

The formal "THE ACADEMY OF THE HEBREW LANGUAGE" (here: https://hebrew-academy.org.il/) list the following rules for nikud of vav hachibur (the vav of addition):

Shva, pronounced as u for words starting with the letters בומ"ף. Examples: וגבעות (u-gvaot translates to "and hills"), ובנות (u-banot translates to "and girls").

In words where the next latter is chataf, the vav will get the same nikud as the chataf. For example, in the word ואני (va-ani) the א has the nikud chataf patach, which leads to the vav getting a patach. In the word ואמת the א has chataf segol, which leads to the vav getting a segol.

A vav preceeding a word which has a yud with shva at the begiing such as ילדים (yeladim, kids) and יהודים (yehudim, jews) will get a chirik and pronounced as vi.

In some common constant attachment of words the vav will get a kamatz and be pronounced as va. Examples, כפתור ופרח "Kaftor va-perach" which translate to a butten and a flower and is an expression. A second example would be בשר ודם "basar va-dam" which translate to flash and blood.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AzIgaziZsoozsy

Because the vowel of the letter ו changes because of the vowel of the first letter of the word it is attached.

In today's modern Hebrew most of the speakers, even if Hebrew is their mother tongue, they don't have a clue about linguistics built of the language of the Bible (that's what I studied for first and second grade), that's why they pronounce it like they don't know what vowel should be under the consonant letters, because they never write it, that's why they pronounce it like "veata" which is actually wrong, but as noone knows, noone corrects each other.

Duolingo try to teach the correct pronunciation, even if most of the Israelis they don't know it and pronounce it wrong and might even correct you wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HARMONYSTA3

thanks! I couldn't understand how to say. I like how you used phonetics! It would be nice if they used them:)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ANeto9

Why the word ve-ani sounds like v but writted without Vet but begining with I?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

Because ו (vav) can also be pronounced as "v".


[deactivated user]

    I was just about to suggest it, but you were 12 hours earlier than me :) A beautiful song by Arik Einstein.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/leysont

    Why do the women in the video call each other אתה?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hrafnunga

    Because those are the words to the song. It is strange, though.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cuteseal2

    If the quick translation thing says אתה is "you are", why is this not "You are and I am?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniKelly69

    because Hebrew doesn't have/use the verb "to be" in the present tense. In English אתה is translated "you", "you are", or "are you"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gerardd88

    Ahhh, another language that doesn't like to be. I've just finished Russian and haven't really got over Turkish yet and now this. Why you do this Hebrew?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pcoco_priest

    Haha I've been learning Hebrew all my life and the worst part is separating words into masculine and feminine. Hebrew has all the to be verbs except in present tense. Why? Because Hebrew is like "here's a long list of rules you must learn.....here's a list of exceptions to each and every rule"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cuteseal2

    Perfect, thanks for the explanation!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LobsangC

    So, then, how do we know which one is called for in any given situation which I believe is more in line with what 'Cuteseal2' was asking about.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hatch_and_

    If the word order the other way around, this would be Martin Buber's great book "אני ואתה" (Ich und Du / I and Thou). :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ID-007
    • 2573

    Does the word 'and' exist as a separate word in modern Hebrew? Thank you.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ran6996

    No, it doesn't


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ID-007
    • 2573

    Ran, thank you for confirming the non-existence.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Scripture.Page

    The word 'גם' means 'also', which could function as the word 'and'. However, 'גם' usually appears with the 'ו' in front of it: גם כלב וגם חתול


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ID-007
    • 2573

    VenerableOrigen, Thank you kindly. Happy Holidays and enjoy the lingot!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GordonJeps

    Are the letters "D" and "T" pronounced as dental or alveolar consonants in Hebrew? (Spanish or English pronunciatiom of "D" and "T"?)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

    They are pronounced like the "d" and "t" in the English words "do" and "to".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Scripture.Page

    "Me" is a direct object pronoun. "You and I" would be "אתה ואני", but "you and me", as direct object pronouns (since in English 'you' functions as both a subject and direct object pronoun), would be "אותך ואותי".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/janekhaled

    why there's no space between אני and ו?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Scripture.Page

    In Hebrew, the word 'and' is an proclitic, always attached to the beginning of the word you are adding to the list. For instance: 'dog and cat' = 'כלב וחתול'


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ronaldo623

    Is it va-ani or ve-ani?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

    "va-ani" is correct by the formal "academy" rules, Hebrew speakers would invariably say "ve-ani". See my very long comment above with my theory on why the Duolingo speaker pronounced "va-ani".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chelseawei11

    Why does it always correct at/atah like its the same thing and it doesnt specify the gender


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JonahHarman

    Why did I not get it right by saying 'You & I'


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

    Because you typed "&" instead of "and".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tu.8zPhLySD9eGoy

    Again, Does the order not matter? Or is it a "bug"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

    The order of the words in a sentence matters.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/german4everyeah

    What is the difference between את and אתה


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

    "אתה" is "you" masculine and "את" is "you" feminine.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BillAck

    Seems like arabic word انت و انا


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BronSavini

    I am a raw beginner. What's the sg?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

    "sg" is the abbreviation of the word "singular".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/London.CHANEL

    So, where's "and" in the sentence?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eshalev

    The letter ו preceding the word אני is the "and".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/London.CHANEL

    Thank you. I think you know the letters and their sounds, I want to know if there are different letters with the same sounds, or it's just my ears! Also, is this the same Hebrew of Yemenis?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eshalev

    Yes, there could be some letters that would sound the same. Yemenis as the language they speak in Yemen? Otherwise, I am not sure what you mean by Yemenis.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/London.CHANEL

    I mean the Yemenite Hebrew or maybe Temani Hebrew.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eshalev

    TL;DR: To answer your question, yes is it the same though pronounced differently.

    The Hebrew speakers who originate from Yemen (Temanim) speak the same Hebrew like the rest in terms of spelling and grammar. They do, however, along with other middle eastern originating Hebrew speakers, pronounce the ח (chet) and the ע (Ayin) from inside the through in a manner similar to Arabic.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/London.CHANEL

    Thank you so much.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NeilJaqua

    Why does that x looking letter make an "ah" sound in the first word but an "ee" in the second?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

    Aleph א ("the x looking letter") has the same sound in both words - "ah" - > ata va-ani. Aleph actually doesn't "make" a sound on it's own. Its sound always comes from the vowel that is attached to it.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeoTolstoy6

    Which gender is אתה used for?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeFant0meCach3

    Okay really confused...maybe it would be better to have some lessons before the app throws you into the deep end trying to learn words before even seeing how the alphabet works?! lol


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

    The alphabet was introduced before the first lesson in the tips section, but some people say they can’t access them, so here is a fun site to learn the alphabet. Good luck! https://www.cartoonhebrew.com/

    This sentence by the way is Ata va-ani

    You and me, but most native speakers will say Ata ve-ani. I’ll give you a hint here. When someone in the comments section says that most native speakers will say such and such colloquially, if you insist on going with the formally correct version, it’s like saying whom in English.

    Btw ata is you masculine singular but ani is used by both genders.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SimonPeter105911

    I dont get it .Wheres the typo? אתה ואנ


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

    You forgot the yod at the end of ani “I”. אני is I.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gil126126

    I'm an Israeli who trying to learn English. It's isn't suppose to be "you and me" and not "you and I"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

    Your question has already been answered many times, but I realize it’s hard to read through all of the comments and understand the grammatical terms. ID-007 put in concisely: Who is going skiing? You and I. I=אני. I or אני is doing the action. So to translate ‏אתה ואני, You and I is correct.

    However you will often hear this in colloquial speech: Who is going skiing? You and me.

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