https://www.duolingo.com/StrapsOption

Idea for Chinese/Japanese/Korean etc. Script

StrapsOption
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I have an idea for when Chinese/Japanese/Korean etc. for English speakers is being created. I know that writing the symbols is a problem, so I my idea this: we could use the mouse handwriting. You know when you go to Google Translate for Chinese and it gives you the writing options? Well, the bottom one is handwriting. Just a suggestion. What do you think, Duolingo?

4 years ago

15 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/stecchetto
stecchettoPlus
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I think the primary method they'll use is pinyin input (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin_input_method), but it would be great to have exercises to teach and practice handwriting as well, since obviously you can't use pinyin input when you're writing on paper. ;-) Perhaps handwriting practice might also even help with character recognition.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/856pm

They'll probably start out with Romanji in Japanese, but it's possible to actually write Japanese with only Hiragana and Katakana. Plus, you don't need to know nearly as many Kanji for Japanese as you need to know Hanzi for Chinese.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sigmacharding
sigmacharding
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I really want to learn the Japanese alphabet(s) but I would be great if we had the option to write using Latin script- it would just be very convenient while learning.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/squiggy.fl

Writing in romaji is only helpful before you get to the point of there being a million and a half homophone words. However if you mean that you should type using a qwerty keyboard and it should snap to hiragana and kanji, this might happen. Most Microsoft computers have a setting that will do this. You still have to pick which kanji from the list of homophone kanji, but you type with the same keyboard as for english.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/StrapsOption
StrapsOption
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No I don't mean QWERTY keyboard, I mean literally using the mouse to draw out the letters, so that the keyboard has nothing to do with it. Either that or use both for each question.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/squiggy.fl

That could be hard for them to do. I have tried a LOT of the draw the kanji games and apps, and I have yet to find one that didnt have a lot of stroke order errors. You have to write japanese with a VERY specific stroke order. You cannot just draw it like you see it. Writing it in the specific stroke order for a specific kanji allows you to see it in pieces, which allows you to see the story of the pictogram.

I doubt duo would allow a hand writing setting because it could take years to make one without errors. Writing english is easy because as long as a B looks like a B, it is correct, but that is not the case with japanese. You absolutely must use the correct stroke order. You also need to hold your pen differently than you would to write English. So if they did release the course with hand written capabilities (again, this would take years as all the apps I have tested have flaws in stroke order), you could fail a level for stroke order even if you answered the question right. It is hard to explain until you start writing yourself, just how crucial stroke order is to the way your japanese looks (and your hand gets sore if you dont do it right).

I only know about Japanese, so maybe korean stroke order doesnt count. I doubt chinese would do a hand writing thing for the same reasons as japanese. Korean is so easy to read though since it is phonetic. Hard to say for hangul. Hangul is so easy that they might not bother with even considering handwriting.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sommerlied
sommerlied
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The Google Input as eg. on Google Translate doesn't care about stroke orders.

There are many known methods to implement something like this, and it's not too time consuming. However, you need thousands (better millions) of handwritten characters as training data for the system, each character written as often as possible by many different people. The difficult part is to get this data. Once you have this data, the rest should be rather manageable. :)

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/squiggy.fl

The google input may not care, but google is not trying to teach the language. To teach it, it must be done with the correct stroke order. Learning the wrong way would cause a lot of problems later and it is nearly impossible to unlearn doing it the wrong way once you have that muscle memory solidified. Wrong is wrong. Once you get to a kanji with 40 strokes, you will know why this is so important. Also without stroke order, your handwriting will look like a kindergartner did it. My english handwriting looks like a 3 year old wrote it, and I would prefer if duo would not contribute to my japanese looking like that.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/StrapsOption
StrapsOption
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I suppose you need a pretty steady hand. But I still don't like using the QWERTY keyboard to do handwriting. It does, as rewong says, erode reading skills, as you actually wouldn't know what the letters are supposed to look like when shown them in real life.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/StrapsOption
StrapsOption
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This would be convenient only for writing the phonetic spelling, but there really isn't much point using Pinyin.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/squiggy.fl

Um. When I type in japanese (on my tablet), I type in hiragana and choose which kanji it snaps to. I thought this was the standard method. I handwrite Japanese with a brush marker because its prettier that way.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/squiggy.fl

By the way, korean hangul is just a normal alphabet. They just arrange it into syllable blocks instead of writing it across the page. It is not a pictographic type system like japanese and chinese. It looks like it is, but it isn't. You could learn to read it in a weekend if you were motivated. I like their letter for B. It looks like batman. Because it is just a normal alphabet, I am not sure that it is even necessary to have as much writing practice. With Japanese, you must write write write to cement the kanji in your mind. With korean, you just have to see batman to know the first letter in the block is a B. You can just sound it out.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/rewong
rewong
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I agree, it's really important to learn handwriting! I find that relying on Pinyin input too much is eroding my reading skills.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sommerlied
sommerlied
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I hope that they can just integrate the Google Input as in Google Translate, and let us choose which option we prefer. I simply love the handwriting option! It works really well :D

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/StrapsOption
StrapsOption
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I actually didn't think of that, that's a great idea.

4 years ago
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