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  5. "הרופאה לא עובדת ביום שבת."

"הרופאה לא עובדת ביום שבת."

Translation:The doctor does not work on Saturday.

June 22, 2016

39 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CAA15

In English, we do not always insert "on" when speaking of doing things on certain days. It is also legitimate to say "The doctor doesn't work Saturday."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/parchee

Honestly, it sounds a bit strange to me. Maybe it's a regional thing. It's more acceptable to me to say "The doctor doesn't work Saturdays."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CAA15

I am from Texas, you?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/parchee

Having thought about it some more, I suppose that it's okay. For example, "I'm leaving Friday and returning Monday." I personally don't use it much, because I feel it's not quite correct. I'm from Sydney.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CAA15

Agreed. grammatically I believe it is correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dan87202

I'm OK with "Doctor doesn't work today," but "doesn't work on Saturday" sounds odd--as does "doesn't work September 6th." 55 years in California...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janis559500

This wording would imply that the doctor isn't working this coming Saturday.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JasonFries2

To me this sounds like you mean Saturday this week


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BaylaBeilin

shabbos should work as an acceptable translation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zleight1

No, it is not correct that is a Yiddish translation to english


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dan878472

Not strictly true. Modern Hebrew is mostly Sephardic in pronunciation, but there are variations with Ashkenazi pronunciation creeping in from time to time. Example, Ashkenazi "yud and quf" for י and ק instead of yod and kof. Additionally a terminal ת without a dagesh gives rise to an "s" pronunciation at the end of words like שבת and ברית. This pronunciation is especially retained in liturgical readings in Ashkenazi congregations, including an accent on the penultimate syllable instead of terminal syllable, therefore SHAB-bas and not shab=BAS. The spelling of Shabbos with an "os" instead of "as" is merely custom, since it is a transliteration anyway. I am not a native Hebrew speaker, nor am I Jewish, but my son married into an Ashkenazi family, and their liturgical pronunciation drives me nuts sometimes. I welcome any corrections or comment, especially from native speakers. I can't speak to the Yiddish take, but when I run "Saturday" through google translate it does return a pronunciation of "shbs".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mazzorano

I believe it accepts Shabbos, Shabbat, Saturday, Saturdays and Shabatot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jason137255

For the heck of it I tried using Shabbat and it did work. Since we don't know if the doctor is not working specifically for religious reasons or because he'd rather be on the golf course that day I think both are perfectly fine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janis559500

Since English has very little gender, I tried to give, "The lady doctor does not work on Saturday," but they marked it wrong. I wish they would accept an answer like that. It would make the full meaning of the Hebrew clear in the English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

I would understand lady doctor as a רוֹפֵא נָשִׁים, i.e. a גִּינֶקוֹלוֹג.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janis559500

On the other hand, you would not refer to a pediatrician as a child doctor (do you remember Doogie Howser?). But you could say "children's doctor." In the same folksy way, you could refer to a gerontologist as an "old folks' doctor" -- you wouldn't say an "old person doctor." I've heard women say, "For a gynecologist, I prefer a lady doctor to a male doctor." Likewise many men say, "For a urology or a prostate exam, I prefer a male doctor to a lady doctor (or a woman doctor, or a female doctor.) I think you'll hear it any of those ways. But I don't think I've ever heard someone say they want a "man doctor" meaning either a doctor for male health issues or a male doctor.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Oh I see, you need a plural for those the doctor treats. רוֹפֵא נָשִׁים is also a women's doctor. It might be a problem of my native German, were we have the same form for Kindersoldat (child soldier, a child who is a soldier) and Kinderarzt (pediatrician, a doctor who treats children).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janis559500

רופא נשים is in the construct state, isn't it = doctor of women.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Yes, of course. This Hebrew word is clear. I cited it again, because it supports your cause.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

When I was studying Japanese, at an American family gathering I introduced my aunt to a Japanese student as “my dad’s older sister”, to cater to his way of thinking: Japanese has no common way to say merely “sister” without designating older or younger. Well, since I was speaking to Americans, the room erupted in laughter! When you speak in English, you speak in a way that’s natural for the people in the English-speaking culture. I ended up insulting my aunt, and if you specified “lady doctor”, you will probably insult her as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/71wI
  • 233

isn't yom redundant?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, in principle yes, but I think it has its name because all the other weekdays are יוֹם plus a numeral and so it sounds similar and secondly to differenciate it from שַׁבָּת as a religious observance meaning a purely calendarical term instead.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Actually it's perfectly natural to say it without יום - to my ears it sounds more elegant than with יום. A step back, יום is quasi-optional with any day of the week: הרופאה לא עובדת בשני would be totally understood, and people often say so, but it's a bit colloquial. לא עובדת בשבת, in contrast, does not even sound colloquial or missing anything - probably because שני etc. is basically an adjective, while שבת is basically a noun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Snezhi

After reading different comments for different sentences I wonder if I got this right (meaning the general rule). It sounds like the sentence as Duo has it could maybe mean that 1) the doctor as a general rule does not work on Saturdays but maybe 2) the doctor does not work this specific coming Saturday. And there is some ambiguity. However, if I wanted to get rid of the ambiguity, I could use הרופאה לא עובדת ביום שבת הזה and that would mean the doctor does not work this coming Saturday (all the other Saturdays are not discussed). And also, הרופאה לא עובדת בימים שבת and that would mean hands down, the doctor does not work on Saturdays. Period. Did I understand correctly? Am I right in understanding that the sentence above contains a slight amount of ambiguity or is it more straightforward than I have been led to believe by reading other people’s questions? Any help is appreciated!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

For on Saturdays you have to use a construct chain: בִּימֵי־שַׁבָּת. After בְּיָמִים you would expect a list, like בְּיָמִים שַׁבָּת וְרִאשׁוֹן on (the days) Saturday and Sunday.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Snezhi

Oh nice! Also, I would assume that would be how I would say the doctor doesn’t work on weekends then. Right? Or at least one of the ways to say it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Yes, if you speak Hebrew in a country where "weekend" is Saturday and Sunday, which is obviously not Israel...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Snezhi

LOL I didn’t think about that. I guess I was thinking about my weekend. Thanks for pointing that out!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Other than the little mistake that IngeborgHa mentioned, you got it perfectly right. It's not just slightly ambiguous in Hebrew, it's almost grossly ambiguous...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Snezhi

Thank you for the confirmation. I guess all languages have their intricacies. Personally, I don’t mind having to decipher convoluted sentences as long as when it’s all said and done I feel like I’ve advanced in my understanding.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, in the early times of the language revival, some authors thought that long convoluted sentences were against the spirit of Hebrew, as the Bible uses predominantly paratactic sentences, eschewing subordinate conjunctions and refusing to stipulate the casual, temporal, conditional, adversal relations between contiguous clauses, prefering endless chains of main sentences beginning with and. Alas, the European style (rabbinic writing gave some tools for this) has won, but I think Hebrew still tends to have simpler formed sentences than their European counterparts.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Snezhi

I have to say I’m looking forward to digging into the Tanakh. I’ve kind of avoided it because I don’t want to get frustrated and give up on the language altogether and I’m not really at a level where I can read it on my own just yet. But the longer I wait, the more I build it up in my mind, I think, and I can hardly wait. And as far as style, languages evolve. I think it’s exciting when you can trace a certain influence in a language. But I feel like the more I learn, the more I discover how interconnected we all are and how we affect each other’s cultures, language, cuisine, etc. And more often than not we don’t even realize we’re doing it. All exciting stuff.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Studying the Scriptures in Hebrew is indeed exciting! I’m still a beginner in Hebrew, but here’s how I study biblical Hebrew. When there’s a word in scripture I want to drill down into, I use the interlinear Bible. Just google for example “Proverbs 31 interlinear” and you’ll be taken to a biblehub site where you can see the Hebrew, the transliteration and the English meaning. In Proverbs 31:30 I read this morning “Charm is deceptive and beauty is fleeting.” What is charm in Hebrew? I wondered, so I clicked on the Strong’s number above khen ‏חן which was translated as charm. I found out that this word is used 69 times in the Old Testament and usually translated as favor or grace. The interlinear Bible shows you every single instance of חן! Then you can try to judge for yourself if the Bible you use should have said “charm” instead of the usual “favor”. This is a great exercise in logical thinking and deepening your knowledge of God’s word.

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