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  5. "ילדים וגברים."

"ילדים וגברים."

Translation:Children and men.

June 22, 2016

34 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/D.Tauber

Why does the vav before 'men' sound like an 'o' instead of a 'v'? I've noticed this whenever "and men" is referenced


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

The "and" ו turns from "ve" sound to "oo" in a few occasions. One of them, here, where the word starts without a vowel - גברים = gvarim - the g goes right into the v, no additional vowel. To eliminate consecutive non-sounding (or nearly so) consonants the language turns the "ve" into "oo"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ran6996

I'm no expert in such rules of the language, but just wanted to note that in a casual manner of speaking you can pretty much always say 've' and it would be perfectly acceptable..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ran6996

(which is possibly a mistake but nowadays that's how people in Israel speak...)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daniel495432

So just to be clear, when it comes to "and" the 'o' version is common in colloquial Hebrew, sounds more natural, but is viewed as incorrect traditionally? When can it occur? Before consonant clusters?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ran6996

The 've' version is more common in colloquial Hebrew. There's no 'o' version but rather an 'oo' version, (meaning it sound more like an 'u' sound). It's not very common in everyday talk.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/phuvtuo

No, they said the opposite of what you just said. They are saying that it is not proper to use the v sound with consecutive nonsounding consonants but that people have begun to do it commonly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shani.gorm

I think the important question here is, do you want to sound like a native Modern Hebrew Speaker? or like a radio announcer/religious person? The majority of modern hebrew speakers use the "ve" pronunciation every time. Only official scripts from the radio/TV use the "oo" pronunciation and very religious people reading from formal texts. So it is a question of register - not "proper".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tomgoldie1

So it's like oog b'v' reem? It's so fast it's hard to hear without knowing what it SHOULD be :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AneurinEE

Yes - I'd like to know this too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silviavdh7

but in the streets in Israel they always says "ve", in the news "oo"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sparkle

most people don't know when to use oo, so they just use ve, or quite commonly use oo incorrectly


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/larry462783

The voice is hard for me to understand


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eunkeum

What does the ם' make and when do I have to use it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

It's the suffix that shows the word is plural. Like the "s" in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eunkeum

Oh I understand, thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ouranikos

-im (ים) is the male plural ending. -ot (ות) is the female one.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wO6yWyIG

But "women" has a male plural ending: "nashim" (נשים)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/linguafiqari

It's an irregular plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EdvntL

An Israeli told me the -im / -ot "rule" is only helpful with verbs and adjectives. He says that so many nouns have the plural ending of the "wrong" gender that you cannot use it reliably with nouns. He believes there are too many to be called "exceptions" - better to just memorize the plural as you learn a new noun (like most of the times in German, I guess).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Basilious

Yeladeem ogvareem. That is what I hear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shani.gorm

I think the important question here is, do you want to sound like a native Modern Hebrew speaker? or like a radio announcer/religious person? The majority of Modern Hebrew speakers use the "ve" pronunciation every time. Only official scripts from the radio/TV use the "oo" pronunciation and very religious people reading from formal texts. So it is a question of register - not "proper".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YingFi

The sound bit does not sound like the Hebrew and, but the Hebrew or.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Smith.Grant

Yes... I thought the same...so ילדים או גברים.... boys or men. It must be a different pronunciation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

ו - u (in this case)

או - o

They are different.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jjlenore

Kids vs children??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PurelySmart

ילדים

is for both kids and children


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shani.gorm

Boys and children and kids are all ילדים in Hebrew


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Omer100f

Informal and formal


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChromateX

Is ים the most common plural suffix?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

There are only two plural endings - ים (usually the masculine plural) and ות (usually the feminine ending). Not sure which is more common, but that's all you get.

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