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  5. "עגבניה ומלפפון הם ירקות."

"עגבניה ומלפפון הם ירקות."

Translation:Tomatoes and cucumbers are vegetables.

June 22, 2016

70 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hsn626796

how is עגבניה "tomatoes" ? Isn't it singular ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

Good question. The plural shouldn't be accepted here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/raisage

Agreed, I reported this on November 9, 2018.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LaLa627712

Agree. Still appears incorrect. I have reported it again on April 18, 2020


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/puppyluv6

Still incorrect, I reported it. It's July 19, 2020


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/x..gabriella..x

Still incorrect, October 31st,2020.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aaron.Crowe

The nouns are generic, expressing a category or class. For this English may use the definite, indefinite, or plural as here.

Eg. The hen is a bird. = A hen is a bird. = Hens are birds.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rose356803

Yes, you're right!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shuki25

Technically tomato is a fruit!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlmogL

So is a cucumber.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shim

Tomatoes, cucumbers etc are fruits according to botanical definitions and vegetables according to colloquial/culinary usage. It is 100% correct to say a tomato is a vegetable and there is no conflict with the botanical definition because the term "vegetable" is not really used in botany and is limited to culinary usage.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Botanical_Fruit_and_Culinary_Vegetables.png


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johnny_93

Wow I didn't know that! Thabks for the info


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/David464261

Fruit is a biological term referring to plant products that are edible and bear seeds. Vegetable is also category of food, not biology. A tomato is both. It's not about zero sum game.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

The botanical definition of fruit is indifferent to whether or not it is "edible".

a908 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MAVENfunBUPKIS

Unless you are speaking from the standpoint of Jewish prayer. When offering blessings before eating, you would consider the categories of your food.

"Fruits" as we would understand them, could be either grapes (as juice or wine), or tree-bearing fruit; those carry two of their own blessings. Everything else would be "produce grown directly from the earth."

So tomatoes, cranberries, watermelon, etc. might all be fruit from a biological standpoint; but they would get lumped in with vegetables, because they don't grow on a tree.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dartme1

As are cucumbers; nobody said otherwise.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dami1Paredes

Technically tomato is a fruit and a vegetable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CIVx3

"Tomato and cucumber" not "tomatos and cucumbers"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

I think that both are fair translations. Translation is not necessarily best when done literally word-by-word. E.g., we translate "מיץ גזר" to "carrot juice" (as expected), but we do not translate "מיץ תפוזים" as "oranges juice".

So we should consider the most likely way that this would be expressed in English. Google just gave me "About 598 results" for "Tomatoes and cucumbers are vegetables" (with quotation marks), but only "About 5 results" for "Tomato and cucumber are vegetables"; that's from Websites. From books, we get the same favorite, showing about 8 books with "Tomatoes and cucumbers are vegetables" and none with "Tomato and cucumber are vegetables".

b004 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Snommelp

...reference to VeggieTales?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CaptainValiant

Yes! I came to the comments for this!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dieprinzessin

Tomatoes pl should be עגבניות - shouldn't it ? Or does the ' ו' ( and) associate the two words and only the last one needs pl ending to make them both pl ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/k0TN1

מלפפון is also singular form. Guess, it should be fixed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeChiffre3

That sounded more like או than ו


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

Hebrew "and" changes pronunciation from "ve" to "va", "vee", or "oo", depending on the sound that follows it. In this case it's "oomelafefon".

a908 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Whenever I hear "or" on Duolingo I think that's "and" in songs it's not so obvious... Imho... here's a good example it's time set for the chorus (where he sings "and" as a v sound and the u sound. (Song is Ahat Uletamid" once and for all) אחת ולתמיד http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zZXB_ixeXE&t=1m0s


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoLBIc

Thank you for sharing this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/atzilit

My audio said "או," not "ו"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Snommelp

It actually didn't, but that's a common mistake. With labial consonants (like מ) the ו prefix is an oo sound instead of a v sound. I was looking around, and I don't think it was mentioned in any unit notes (maybe I missed it), so perhaps the Hebrew team will want to add that somewhere.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/atzilit

Right, I listened again, to see if that was what was happening. It sounds like the short "o" to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Snommelp

Sounds like an oo to me, but then again, we can't slow it down to check. The joys of having recordings instead of TTS...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VforBBforV

Yeah I thought he was missing the ו out. Thanks for the explanation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daniel111897

I said "tomato and a cucumber are veggies" and it marked me wrong... was i wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

Or "Tomato and cucumber"....

a908 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yakuul

The cucumber part is plural in the hebrew, so i think needs to be in the English as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gbdrbob

No, מלפפון is singular, "a cucumber", plural for "cucumbers" is מלפפונים


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miha991019

Both words in hebrew are singular. Translation on plural in not correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rhonda859305

No, the word hem הם is not an indicator of a question. It means "They" - and the construction of the sentence is to create a replacement for the verb "to be," which doesn't exist in the present tense in Hebrew. So, using another sentence as an example, "Tigers and bears are animals." would be word for word in Hebrew "Tigers and bears, 'they' animals." It seems terrible in English, but the emphasis when speaking Hebrew changes ones perception of how the meaning is conveyed. So, in other words, it's like (pointing) THOSE TWO - they are ANIMALS!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

When replying to a specific comment, please use that comment's reply button.

a908 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RaulovesDavid

Why was it put hem here? I'm still kind of confused when we might use it in this type of sentences.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

"Hem" ( הם ) is the third-person plural masculine pronoun "they", which in the present tense also translates to "they are". Even if it is not grammatically necessary, a pronoun may be included for clarification or emphasis.

Start with the last two words, הם ירקות, "they are vegetables". Then, you might think of the sentence conceptually as something like "Tomato and cucumber, they are vegetables." In the actual translation, we don't include "they", so the pronoun also functions as a stand-in for the present tense verb "to be".

At first, the pronoun seems confusing, redundant at best. But without that pronoun we might get the wrong meaning. When used in this manner, the pronoun functions as a "copula" (אוֹגֵד, ogéd), which is explained in the course notes for the "Adj. 1" skill at
https://www.duolingo.com/skill/he/Adjectives1-basics/tips-and-notes
and at
https://duome.eu/tips/en/he#Adjectives1-basics

a908 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Also I think it's badly done of them - half the time they mark you wrong for using it in Hebrew, and half the time you're marked wrong for translating questions into English when it's not there, but they want you to translate it as it is. Ie, do you want water vs you want water?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

There's nothing wrong with the use of "hem" ( הם ) in this lesson, and the course notes for the "Adj. 1" skill explain that usage.

However there are many other lessons with inconsistencies and errors, including some glaring ones that have remained for years despite attempts by many people to notify the course creators.

b001 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hava_Dorit

Having shopped in the shuk many times, I have heard the vendors shouting out their various fruits and vegetables. Always in the singular, even though they usually have many of each.

I wonder whether Hebrew uses the singular for the names of foods. In English, we don't do that; but it seems to me that in Hebrew, we do.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chanieHoff

Actually now that I think about it, according to Torah you make a blessing of borei p'ri ha'adomah on them both. "Fruit of the earth" . All types of melons fall in this category and they are considered "fruit". Just an fyi


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dedee395090

Tomato and cucumber should be singular


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chanieHoff

The Hebrew was a tomato and a pepper. Not tomatoes and not peppers. Two of them (one of each) together are vegetables (plural). My answer should have deemed right. A tomato and a pepper are vegetables.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rhonda859305

To: chanieHoff The Hebrew is actually a tomato and a cucumber (or cucumbers). I admit I also am still a little confused about the singular or plural aspect of it. But "pepper" is "פלפל."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Cucumber not pepper. Pepper is פלפל


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cynthia462256

FINALLY! AFTER READING ALL THE PREVIOUS COMMENTS, THIS ONE IS EXACTLY WHAT I THOUGHT!!! I THINK DUOLINGO GOT THIS ONE WRONG AND I THINK chanieHoff IS RIGHT. BUT WHAT DO I KNOW?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Geo101770

I for one really appreciate that the plural ("tomatoes and cucumbers") is accepted as correct, since it sounds much more natural in English than using the singular ("tomato and cucumber"). It's good to go beyond literal word for word translations and translate expressions in the way that sounds most natural in each language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EmadelDin5

Notice that tomatoes and cucumbers are not pluralized in Hebrew! Each language has its logic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chatulov

Audio souds like: Agvania o melafefon. Should not it sounds like: Agvania vemelafefon?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hava_Dorit

It might be agvania umelafefon.

Some letters can make the vav be pronounced like oo as in moon. I learned them as ב, מ, פ, ש (Shin, and I'm not sure about Sin) before I came to live in Israel, and I have heard this violated as well as kept. I have seen other letters do this in prayer books (ל, for example).

Hope this helps a little.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

The pronunciation of the vav may also depend on the vowel that goes with the letter following it. I haven't seen that with the letters ב, מ, פ, but with ש the Nakdan website gives examples such as:
for Shin, "וּשְׁלוֹם" ("ushlom"), but also "וְשָׁלוֹם" ("veshalom"); and
for Sin, "וּשְׂחֵה" ("uskhe"), but also "וְשָׂח" ("vesakh").

a908 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DalMaegil

I'm not hearing the vav before cucumber. Is anyone else?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hava_Dorit

I listened again, and it IS "umelafefon." See my comment just above yours.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chepina891012

So glad we all realize that they are indeed feuits with seeds AND that these words are singular, not plural


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ninon.de.Lenclos

It's a tomato and a cucumber. Still nit correctes, mid 2019


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mariaagustinao

Those are sing not plural


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

2 things = plural. He and she are going out. They are going to the movies.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

That's not the issue in controversy. The question is whether to translate the sentence as "tomato and cucumber are vegetables", or "tomatoes and cucumbers are vegetables."

a908 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dr.Who11

Tomato and cucumber it should be, shouldn't it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

That should also be good, as discussed above. If your answer was rejected, you can report it.

b001 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/naqietraveler

What is the differencies between מלפפונים and מלפפון?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

@Nadia Rizkiah (naqietraveler):
that's already answered here by Jules (gbdrbob).

b007 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeahLapidus

April 9 2021 singular form still not corrected to plural

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