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  5. "אני לא אוכל בשר וגבינה!"

"אני לא אוכל בשר וגבינה!"

Translation:I do not eat meat and cheese!

June 22, 2016

78 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RedViperMartell

Definitely a Jewish sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KandaceStar17

yes kosher - don't eat dairy and meat together.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aha528145

Oh thats a thing? Darn


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OzzieOnkno

No cheeseburgers if you follow a kosher diet. And certainly no bacon cheeseburgers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Feras..

For how many hours between both of them?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eli158063

Many people hold you barely have to wait after dairy to eat meat, longest ive heard is a half hour


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChanaFriend1

After you eat milk, if u want to eat meat its 1 hour and after you eat meat in order to eat milk its 6 hours but many pple have diff traditions abt the hours


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/samirlevitt

כי זה לא קשר!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlmogL

*כשר :-) או כי אני טבעוני!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/samirlevitt

Pronunciation of טבעוני?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlmogL

Tiv'oni / tivoni


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bakitgulpieter

and what does it mean?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaFrie919483

מה זה טבעוני?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cupshebrews

Eating it separate is no problem, right? I understand the sentence as not eating meat or cheese at all. אני לא אוכל בשר וגבינה Also in biblical terms there's nothing wrong with eating a milk-product together with meat.. it only says "You shall not boil a young goat in its mother's milk." It's very specific and I simply believe it means what it says. Whether eating cheese is beneficial at all is disputable.. but I like it so much. I find it soooo tasty.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alkdsjask

Yeah it's just in the same meal that's not allowed. You have to wait a couple hours after eating one to eat the other.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sarah17212

Mainly after meat. Meat after dairy, there isn't really a need to wait except when it comes to hard cheeses.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jad498154

I know that relegious texts aren't straight forward and clear for that it needs a relegious person to explain it but "AgentPink" said that the biblical phrase state:"don't boil a calf in its mother's milk". Does that mean:

  • Don't mix with meat, only milk or along with all other dairy products like cream yogurt cheese?

  • Only don't cook it with? You can eat them together but not cook them together?

  • You can't nor eat nor cook meat with milk?

  • Or nor eat nor cook meat with all dairy products


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidCheat1

That's religious interpretation rather than translation. The Ethiopian Jewish tradition was the minimal - don't cook a kid in the milk of its own mother. The Talmudic Jewish traditions have expanded it to a ban on any mixing of meat and dairy in the same meal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoMoreHearts

You can't understand the written torah without the oral torah. If it means what it says, then it would be okay to deep fry it in its grandmother's milk.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaFrie919483

Jews aren't christian therefore they believe in the Oral Torah (i.e. Talmud, Mishnah etc.). That's where they get it from. It's an interpretation of that verse.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChanaFriend1

Yes, most of the laws are interpreted by the oral torah.. otherwise we wouldnt understand it!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CJ.Dennis

If you didn't eat either, it would be "I don't eat meat or cheese" or "I don't eat meat and I don't eat cheese". By saying "I don't eat meat and cheese" it's understood to mean together.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

I beg to differ. At least Hebrew speakers, and I suspect English speakers too, don't make such strict logical distinctions; a lot is left to understand from context, or to misunderstand. Specifically the sentence above is easier for me to understand in the sense of "neither meat nor cheese", but only by a small margin.

Basically I think it's not a very natural sentence. In real life, if I wanted to say either of the two possible intentions, I'd use a different sentence, that would make the intention clear.

אני לא אוכל בשר וגבינה ביחד

אני לא אוכל בשר ולא גבינה

And similarly in English (using "nor" for the 2nd intention).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HatchedSylveon

אני אוכל בשר וגבינה, אבל אני לא אוכל בשר עם גבינה


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ouranikos

Learned "but" and "with" from you. Thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeTzvi

How do you distinguish the sound of the Hebrew AND from the Hebrew word OR when the AND is pronounced OH? Also, how do you know if the AND is pronounced as O or VEH when it precedes a word?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Snommelp

It can be hard to tell in some recordings, but it's an oo, not an oh. If you can manage to hear the difference, that will help tremendously. As for when to pronounce it as oo instead of v, it depends upon two things. Firstly, if the next consonant is a labial consonant (b, v, m, p - think "bump") then it will be oo. Secondly, and relevant for this example, if the vowel for the next consonant is a sh'va (which is to say, practically not a vowel), then it's oo.

I'm a little rusty, unfortunately, so I can't help you determine when the vowel for the next consonant would be a sh'va when the vowel pointing is absent. I do know there are rules determining that, having to do with stressed syllables and vowel reductions. But I also know that, in casual conversation, many Israeli people will use v even when strictly speaking the grammar wants oo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

I just saw this song by Ishay Ribo, called (when transliterated) written as Achat Uletamid ,
אחד ולתמיד Once and forever.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaFrie919483

Actually whenever there's an "and" it either sounds like "oo" or "ve". "O" only means "or"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/akhansson

When does it sound like "oo" and when does it sound like "ve"? Which rule defines this? Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/abcember

I would argue that this is simply the wrong translation into English, or an awkward (non-native) English sentence. An English speaker would say "I don't eat meat OR cheese" (if they were vegan, say) or "I don't eat meat WITH cheese" (If they were talking about the laws of kashrut). Either way, we would never say it the way it's being said here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarrieYael

I agree. I wonder if the Hebrew version sounds as awkward to a native Hebrew speaker as the English one does to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berenyu

In both languages it seems to imply, quite strongly, that the speaker keeps meat and cheese out of his/her diet. The only thing that gives rise to the kashrut discussion is this being a Hebrew language exercise.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Yes, the Hebrew sounds a bit awkward to me, but just a bit. In a comment above I wrote how I would say the two intentions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexEiffert

Loved this sentence. Reminds me of when I asked my Zaide if I could have ranch dressing with my salad when we were eating brisket.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Why can't you have ranch isn't it mayo? (I don't eat ranch, I do keep conservative/masorti kosher... )


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidCheat1

Ranch dressing has buttermilk.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Ah, ok, can't eat it anyway so i wouldn't know. Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AghaZC

Shouldn't we use "or" in here


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/siphrah

You ask a good question! If this were just a random question, I would be inclined to agree with you. But according to Jewish law eating kosher meat or cheese on its own is okay. What is forbidden is eating meat and cheese together. Presumably this is what inspired the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AghaZC

I still think that (neither... nor) would have made a better choice


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Snommelp

I think you may have misunderstood siphrah's explanation; what they meant was that this sentence is probably about the combination of meat and cheese, rather than refusing each item individually. So a better sentence might be "I don't eat meat with cheese." But since we haven't learned "with" yet (or "neither... nor, for that matter), this is the best way to construct the sentence with the words we've learned.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benk340629

While true, this is simply a bad translation to give a native English speaker. We constantly use "not A or B" to mean "not ( A or B) [which used to be nor, but who says that in 2016?]" which is the same as "A and B". This easy confusion IMO makes this question inappropriate for an English speaker trying to learn Hebrew.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JonathanGl868595

Vegetarian and lactose


[deactivated user]

    I do not eat green eggs and ham! I do not like them, sam i am!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimCopelan1

    Why is it pronounced "oogvenah" and not vagvenah?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

    Search discussions for: "why does the vav sound".

    From what I read: There's some rules that involve nikud* but it's mostly "proper Hebrew" used by newscasters, etc. (we used to have standard American English used the same way).

    *(diacritics/dots that make vowel sounds that are taught to children and but are rarely used on Duolingo). They are helpful to know imho. If you try make sure you learn modern Hebrew nikud NOT biblical. JBS channel on YouTube has a great video series on Hebrew, one is just on shva sound which is what affects vav sound: https://youtu.be/hMae79HY56s . Fluent forever pronunciation guide also has sounds & the rules. That's in their shop, but for free, their pronunciation vids: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLubD-pFqnVgphFj62h_Pc65FlsKrNzWUV


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Annie977915

    the english translation should be "meat or cheese" not "and"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tabidanielle

    In some cases 'ו' (as and) is pronounced 'v' and others 'oo'. How do I know which way it's supposed to be pronounced? Is there a rule?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

    In spoken Hebrew, we just say /ve/ always (except in some set phrases). The speaker here follows the formal rules which are a bit complex. You can look it up (e.g. in many discussion pages in Duolingo), but if you want I can repeat them here.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tabidanielle

    Thank you. I'd rather just say it how most locals would. I'll keep this in mind. Thanks.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rochelle43

    This definitely sounded like "or" not "and"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/schyrsivochter

    It sounded like /u-/ to me, not /o/ …


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bracha80243

    I wrote or cheese it said its wrong, why?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/schyrsivochter

    Because it’s wrong. It says ‘and’.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jakester50

    It's not such a big difference


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anas276

    I'm confused now, "ו", "and" is pronounced sometimes "w" and sometimes "v"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janis559500

    There is no "w" phoneme in Hebrew (except in rare borrowings). The letter vav has 3 sounds. Two of these are shown by the prefix "and," which is pronounced either "oo" (in between the vowels of "took" and "soon") or "v", depending on the consonant that it precedes. When nekudot (vowel markings) are shown, you can see the difference, because the "oo" is indicated by a dot to the middle-left of the vav (note that all other nekudot are either above or below the letter). The 3rd sound a vav can make is never the "and" prefix-- When vav has a dot above it, it becomes the long o, something like the o in "more" (an example being the word for "or" spelled "alef, vav with dot on top, pronounced "o" -- not quite as long as English "oh" which is really a diphthong because we start to close our lips after the o as if starting to make an oo or w sound. Too bad DuoLingo doesn't give nekudot most of the time. Also, too bad they didn't give the rules about when the "and" is "oo" and when it is v. Also they never explained how you know which vowel is under the "v" prefix for "and" (it can be sheva, kamats, patakh, segol, or khirik, depending on what follows).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ouranikos

    Nice explanation. I don't know if it is necessarily a bad thing that Duolingo does not use niqqud. When I see a new word, I do not know how to pronounce it but I will encounter that word in later exercises with audio. This way we are taught to recognise words like natives.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SingerGirl139

    Why is בשר translated as beef sometimes and meat other times? When i translated it here as beef, it was marked incorrect.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gatu77

    I think they are different, beef is בקר, and meat is בשר.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidCheat1

    And the amusement from the confusion between בשר and כשר . There used to be butchers who had no halachic supervision who would post the large word for meat to pretend that they were kosher.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/0LZK8

    I wrote, "I don't eat meat with cheese." Was counted wrong. I submitted the comments that my answer should have been accepted. Should have been?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

    I think it shouldn't be accepted. See other comments in this discussion.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/actua11y

    sounded like אני לא אוכל בשר או גבינה to me...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RinnyJ

    Would the progressive "I am not eating meat and cheese" be incorrect here? Sometimes it allows progressive interchangeably.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidGriff97558

    My answer is correct


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PippaOz

    Double whammy for me, I'm a Jewish vegan.

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