Translation:The Church of the Holy Sepulchre is in Jerusalem.
Busy is putting it mildly. I've been there twice, and it was busy and crowded both times; it's one of the few places in Israel I would not voluntarily visit again. I remember the first time I was there we spent some time on the roof, which if memory serves has people from a very obscure Christian demonisation living on it, and which I feel slightly more confident had some amazing views, but the church itself? Feels more like a weird kind of somber Christian theme park :-/ - and I speak as a Christian.
I think the only part of Jerusalem I liked less was the walk through the archaeological digs - I want to say down in the City of David? And that was because it involved a lot of walking on open mesh catwalks over deep caves (I am acrophobic and have a particular loathing for those metal mesh work steps/catwalks, just the thought of them makes my stomach tighten; that was awful) and then the joy of the Hezekiah Tunnel (I am not claustrophobic, but that was not a lot of fun after the whole walk of fear with the metal catwalks).
The Holy Sepulchre would narrowly beat out repeating that experience... but my ideal visit to Jerusalem would not include either on the itinerary.
I must say I liked it. I've visited several times as I've lived in Jerusalem for several years. I'm 100% atheist! But the energy going on there is crazy, and there's so much going on all the time. By the way it isn't just Catholic. It has place for so many branches of Christianity, and there are people from every place on Earth, and though I have zero attachment to it you can really feel their excitement. I've walked 800 kilometers to the cathedral in Santiago de Compostela (also not for religious reasons...) and didn't feel even a quarter of that excitment and "energy" (for lack of better word) in that place as over there. Maybe you won't like it if you hate crowds...
I honestly would recommend avoiding it. I think maybe, maybe if it was possible to visit when it was very, very quiet indeed, then certain parts of it would be worth the effort, but between the overdose of gilt and ornamentation, the sheer size of the place, and the crowds, it's just... not fun.
כמה תיקונים- "ממה ששמעתי עליו (מקום זה זכר), זה מקום עמוס (עסוק זה לאנשים, לא למקומות) מאוד." או- "ממה ששמעתי עליה, זו כנסייה עמוסה מאוד." כמו כן, 'כאילו' (במובן הזה) זה סלנג שלא נהוג לכתוב אותו אלא רק לומר אותו. זה כמו שתכתוב באנגלית There's like thousands of people. "יש שם אלפי (ללא 'ם') אנשים בו זמנית (רצוי להוסיף 'לפעמים' או 'לעיתים', כי זה לא נכון לכל רגע נתון)"
You actually can write "There's like thousands of people" without an issue, and that's what I meant. Several Israelis I have Skyped with use this word all the time. Otherwise, thanks for the information.
As a person (you) who presumably knows so much about Israel, Judaism, and the Israelis, I am surprised you don't know this. This is a Christian church where they believe Jesus was crucified, buried, and resurrected.
@EdenGordon - Not a Christian church, it is a Catholic church. Big difference.
Catholicism is a branch of Christianity. By default it is a Christian church :/
Nope, it is not. The New Testament speaks against the Catholic church. Not judging the people, but if you saw the way they dress and the rituals and traditions, etc, it is not according to the Bible. And by the way, I'm a Christian.
Whatever, just ignore the guy. He thinks he knows everything
That's the 'no true scotsman' fallacy at work! To any folks unfamiliar with Christianity here listen to EdenGordon and not the overzealous pilgrim...
That's not correct. There are regular fights between different Christian sects over the church. It is uniformly accepted (by Christians) as the site of Christ's burial)
Different Christian sects - a man made system. It wasn't so from the beginning. All Denominations, not only the Catholicism system were not so from the beginning. God never said to any of the disciples to create a denominational system. There is only one true Christianity that has no name but then you get all the denominations who took what they wanted from the Bible and left out what they didn't think was necessary because of popularity, mainly.
I do not know why people are still on this subject, perhaps we should leave it alone, we are not here to argue, I am not here to argue. The conversation was between me and JewishPloyglot with EdenGordon.
@zemblance Overzealous Pilgrim. :D By calling the Church of the Holy Sepulchre a Christian church is like saying that milk and meat are the same thing, aren't they totally different? :)
The church of the Holy Sepulcher is an Orthodox Christian Church. There are six churches that are present there. The Greek, Coptic, Armenian, Syrian, Fransicans and Ethiopians.
The arguments about Catholic and Orthodox church not being Christian are showing a lack of knowledge of church history. The Catholic Church and Orthodox church split in 1054. And the Protestant church split from the Catholic Church starting in 1517. The Evangelical church has come from the Protestant churches.
Just because we are not comfortable with their traditions or do not understand them, we cannot simply come to the conclusion that they are not Christians. Take a little work and learn about their theology. A good start for understanding the Orthodox church is "The Orthodox church" by Timothy Ware (Kallisto Ware). I'm not trying to put one church or theology over the other, but please do not assume to know their hearts. In the end God knows our heart, and if Jesus is Lord of our life or not.
I'm an atheist but was raised in a very Irish Catholic home and went to an Anglican school. This 'Catholics aren't Christians' schtick seems to be an American-only thing. If you think Jesus died for your sins you are a Christian. End of story. (and this applies to Messianic 'Jews' too). I also doubt Jess_Pilgrim's assertion that the New Testament speaks "against the Catholic Church" as no form of Christianity existed until 200 years after the NT
If a Messianic Jew (or anyone, for that matter) has a Jewish mother, he is fully, 100% Jewish according to Jewish law regardless of his belief. By the way, I'm simply saying what the Jewish perspective is. You can disagree if you want
Christianity works differently, it is something that takes affirmative action. You must believe and follow, otherwise you are not Christian(which mans a follower of Christ, so it naturally follows(no pun intended) that would have to follow Him to be one).
Yeah, I remember learning something like that about Christianity once. You should just know, I am aware that the Christian Church has done incredible things in keeping the morals of Western society as a whole from plunging into the abyss in today's crazy world. For this, their efforts deserve to be admired, respected and appreciated by every religious person, regardless of his or her religion
Yes, I know this. Hitler offered a socialist society that would rid Germany of it's WWI economical issues, mainly by exterminating the "1%", or Jews, or so I have heard. I was more asking where right now you thought this could happen, since you seem quite concerned about it (all ways be vigilant; I am not bashing that).
I am a friend, but that doesn't mean I totally agree with everything. For instance, I totally disagree with Israel's socialist government.
As far as land rights go, history clearly shows Israel owns it. It's called conquest/gifts of land. If you attack a nation, and they kick your sorry butt out of land, it's theirs now. Period. It's called power and it's how civilization works. Plus, show me a Palestinian coin from that fateful year of conquest in 1947, that or shut up about it (speaking to supporters of Palestine in general). I do not see you complaining about the European reorganization of land after WWI and WW2... Just this one. I could go on...
And as far as Jews yourselves, I am not racist. It seriously ticks me off how many right wingers (or at least, they claim to be) blame the Jews for everything and the strange wart on their left toe. And yes, there are plenty of pro-Israel Americans. It's mainly the Muslims and Muslim sympathizers that I see being anti, that and the random "blame the Jews for that car accident" people.
And yeah, me neither. Nothing he has said that I have heard has been anti-Israel or Jews. Quite the opposite.
You know what, in this conversation, I don't even need to be, because I agree with every single thing you said! :) As for the Holocaust, the place from where the most anti-Semitic online postings are coming could have a Holocaust right now if they didn't have any electronic gadgets. Granted, of course, that Jews are living there :)
Well, a race that is living evidence for the Bible is kind of a threat to some, so it wouldn't surprise me. As far as another holocaust goes, where do you think this would happen? In Islamic states sure(I hear there is a Christian holocaust happening right now in some Islamic countries), but in America? Us Texans wouldn't stand for it!
The bias against Israel is actually a better game plan in the end. If they can remove support from the Western world, the barbaric radical Islamist will at least attempt to take care of the rest.
You should just know, Germany was a democratic country with a constitution granting equal rights to all its citizens before the Holocaust happened. The way the Nazis came to power could possibly happen in America in the not-too-distant future as well, if enough people are for it. However, I do not doubt for a second that you are a friend of Israel and the Jews; I am also sure that there are plenty like you in the American heartland and, despite what panic-mongering Democrats would say otherwise, I do not think that the fact Trump won the election will bring the scenario of such an era closer to reality while he is in office
Yes, that is true. I just think they have wandered off as a whole from the the Bible. But yes, Christianity has been the heart of the Western world's morality.
And the Church takes the heat from atheists and immoral characters so Jews don't end up doing it and getting burned at the stake by these unsavory people :) Are you familiar with the joke about Lech Walesa and President George HW Bush? Walesa, the first post-Soviet-era Polish president, called President Bush after the fall of the Soviet bloc and begged, "Mr. President, you must provide support to my country! If my country does not get enough money soon, the people will riot, start a mob, and go out and kill the Jews!" "And what will happen if I do help?" asked GHW Bush. "If you do help, Mr. President," replied Walesa, "The people will party, drink a lot of liquor, get drunk... and go out and kill the Jews!"
That is true. American Atheists are among the most arrogant people I have had to deal with, at least one youtube. Go to any religious video(well, Christian specifically) and look at any positive comments - They will almost always have some kind of foolish/down right provocative statement by some Atheist. trying to start a fight... With every single one of them lol.
Anyway, no I have not heard that joke... Honestly I do not get it, could you explain? I am not Jewish, so I am removed from the culture.
Essentially, anti-Semitic Gentiles will always look for some excuse to attack Jews in whatever way they can. My rabbi said that nowadays, if not for smartphones and other fun gadgets that keep the ASGs busy, we would be having another holocaust. At the very least, they are keeping their anti-Semitic incitement limited to journalistic incitement, condemnations of Israel and anti-Semitic postings online
Need to be what? I am not sure I understand.
And I see. So a lot of places.
Sorry, I used Jewish syntax in that sentence - I meant to write "I'm not even needed in this conversation!"
Yes, I was surprised a couple years ago when I started to hear more and more evangelical Christians completely writing off Catholic and Orthodox Christians. It is a lot of Americans, but I am hearing it in Israel too.
I'm not sure where in the New Testament Jess_Pilgrim is referring to either.
That's the problem with so many so-called Christians! Claim to be Christians simply because they go to a church and preach that Christ died for their sins. That doesn't make you anywhere near a Christian but a born again experience! It isn't about joining a church, it's about starting with a personal relationship with Jesus Christ first. I believe in going to church but not a man made system, denominations weren't so from the beginning, as I said to GideonShir. You can read my comment there otherwise I'd just repeat.
Of course, I am not judging the people. God's people are found everywhere in every situation. True Christianity has no name such as Catholicism and many denominational names, it wasn't so from the beginning, nowhere found in the Bible. I was simply pointing out to someone that The Church of the Holy Sepulchre is not a Christian church because the beliefs that pertain to the church are not according to the Bible, therefore it isn't Christianity but their own religion, just because it's a church does not mean it's a Church of God, did not the Bible say that many will come in that day and say, Lord, Lord have we not done all these things in thy Name and Jesus answered saying, depart from me, I never knew you. Jesus is knocking on the door of many churches, He is kicked out due to all their traditions, rituals and opinions on the Bible. I am sure that there are many wonderful people who go to that church, I am never against any individual person, only God is the one that is to Judge.