"זבוב זה חרק."

Translation:A fly is an insect.

2 years ago

47 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/shwmae
shwmae
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Is the pronunciation of חרק correct here? Morfix says when it means "insect" it's pronounced חֶרֶק (khérek), but when it's pronounced חָרַק (kharák), as here, it means "squeaked, screeched, failed"?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/daswasserfrau
daswasserfrau
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That's right. "חָרַק" is a common mistake for insect in colloquial Hebrew. The correct pronunciation is "חֶרֶק".

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/shwmae
shwmae
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Oh, so some native speakers actually say חָרַק colloquially when they mean "insect"?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/daswasserfrau
daswasserfrau
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Yup.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/YardenNB

No one is recent decades (50 years at least?) says חֶרֶק. Everybody say חָרַק for both meanings.

3 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/shwmae
shwmae
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That's good to know. Sometimes dictionaries are behind the times when it comes to real pronunciation (which is want learners want to learn). תודה!

3 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/flootzavut
flootzavutPlus
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This construction is weirdly similar to how you can say this in (some) Slavic languages, if my brain is figuring this right. I can't think of exact equivalents because it's late and my brain is fuzzy, but it seems like how you might say "kot to zwierzę" (a cat is an animal) in Polish (which in Polish means avoiding the instrumental case, which is nice ;)), or кошка это животный (same meaning) in Russian.

(I think Ukrainian has a similar construction, but I don't remember exactly, and I don't remember the word for animal!)

But the noun, demonstrative, noun thing seems very similar to the Hebrew construction, assuming I've understood correctly how the Hebrew version is built, of course ;) since I am not a native speaker in any of these languages, and rustily fluent only in one.

Any other Slavic language speakers notice this/think it feels familiar?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AndreasWitnstein
AndreasWitnstein
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In Russian, one can say either «Муха — это насекомое.» (literally, ”.זבוב זה חרק„) or simply «Муха — насекомое.» (literally, ”.זבוב חרק„).

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AndreasWitnstein
AndreasWitnstein
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According to Olga Kagan, the Hebrew copular construction with ’זה‚ was likely borrowed from Slavic languages. See “Predicate Nominal Sentences with the Hebrew ze and Its Russian Counterpart eto”.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/flootzavut
flootzavutPlus
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Yes, I knew it was optional in Russian :)

That's very interesting that it may have been a borrowing from Slavic languages - I checked, and Ukrainian does use a similar construction. I don't remember Croatian doing so, but I haven't studied it in fifteen years, and I haven't made it that far down the Czech reverse tree to find out... it'll be interesting to see if it pops up in either of those when I get far enough/do some revision.

Thanks for the info, off to read that page now!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Maks1985

Croatian and Serbian don't really use it like that... You could say "Muha, to je insekt" or "Muva, to je insekt" like you could say "A fly, that's an insect" in English, but you wouldn't say "Muha to insekt" or "Muva to insekt" ("Muva to insekt" could mean something like "An insect is hitting on that", since "muvati" is kind of like a slang for "to be hitting on", so it wouldn't make much sense)... Usually, people would say it as "Muha je insekt" or "Muva je insekt" and you can alternatively say it as "Muha insekt je" or "Muva insekt je" (the "je" is kind of like a short form of "jeste", which means "it is").

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/flootzavut
flootzavutPlus
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Thanks! I couldn't remember such a construction in Croatian, but it's been a reeeeally long time so I wasn't at all sure.

I was thinking that this was because Ukrainian and Russian don't have "to be" in the present tense, but then remembered that Polish does.

It occurs to me that, as far as I remember, Croatian doesn't use the instrumental in predicate(?) sentences in the present tense like Polish does? So that makes me wonder if it's because of that that Polish has ended up with a simpler construction to avoid always using the instrumental.

(With the disclaimer that I'm just dabbling in the reverse course, Czech doesn't appear to have this construction and also doesn't use the instrumental in those kinds of sentences, so that's my best guess why Polish has it. I am guessing, but it seems logical...)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Skoubi_Doo
Skoubi_Doo
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As far as I know, "to" in Czech is only used for demonstrative (To je můj bratr, this is my brother). For "A fly is an insect", in Czech we would simply use the verb "to be" : Moucha je hmyz, as xerostomus said.

6 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/xerostomus

Well the Czech version is analogous to English one: Moucha je hmyz. Or Moucha patří mezi hmyz. As I know Slovak they have it the same. May be it is made according to German pattern. I am not familiar with ancient Czech.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/zac2333
zac2333
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That came to mind for me as well!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kiryo
Kiryo
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In Ukrainian: «Муха — це тварина». :)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Sanderssc

So why is this "zvuv zeh..." and not "zvuv hu..."?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/EdenGordon

fly/zvuv/זבוב is an animal, not a human, and in Hebrew it is considered an "it". therefore he/hu/הוא and she/he/היא wouldn't fit, because they regard humans. If it were talking about a specific fly/zvuv/זבוב, let's say Shlomo the fly/שלמה הזבוב, a he/hu/הוא approach would be correct.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AlmogL
AlmogL
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I partly disagree. There is no neuter in Hebrew, it is not a matter of being an "it". I do agree that it is about being a general thing as apposed to a specific fly. Shlomo the fly would be a הוא, so would be my specific chair (הוא שבור). The general fly would tend to be a זה, but you would also say ילדים זה עניין רציני.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/YardenNB

I partly disagree (-: שלמה זה הילד הכי גבוה בכיתה sounds fine to me.

3 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MacGyver630234

I love the word זבוב, even though I don't like the זבוב, but this word seems best to describe the sound a fly makes. Haha, hilarious. I will probably ever rememer this word.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Maks1985

Yeah :) I'm not sure if some other languages have a word for a fly that sounds like that sound flies make, but there is a word "zunzara" in Serbian for a specific kind of flies (not all flies) that buzz more noticeably than usual flies.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/FaizalZahid
FaizalZahid
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Will it be ok if "ze" is omitted?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/nirc2
nirc2
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no. "ze" is "it" , or "it is" so zvuv ze harak = a fly it is an insect

without ze, it would just be "fly insect", two words together, and not a sentence

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PabloStanfield

wrong. Two words together can make a perfect sentence in Hebrew.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/YardenNB

I agree with you that nirc2's explanation was not precise, but his bottom line WRT this sentence is correct: you can't say זבוב חרק.

3 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/FaizalZahid
FaizalZahid
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Are you native? I think "is" and "a" are not in Hebrew...so without "ze"...wouldn't it be "(a) fly (is an) insect"

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/nirc2
nirc2
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i am a native hebrew speaker. ze = this, that, it. zvuv ze harak literally means a fly it insect.

if it was an adjective, you should omit the ze. e.g - a fast fly = זבוב מהיר = zvuv maheer. but if you talk about flies in general, zvuv ze maheer = a fly is (a) fast (thing)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/FaizalZahid
FaizalZahid
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Yeah, I've noticed it! Thank you very much! Toda raba!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/FaizalZahid
FaizalZahid
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By the way, I've notice the comment by Ploomich:

https://www.duolingo.com/comment/16277096$comment_id=16373038

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lamia979415

Notes from first lesson: In Hebrew the verb "to be" doesn't exist in the present tense - meaning that there is no "am" , "is" or "are" in Hebrew .

So, is it wrong to say: זבוב חרק if you want to say, "A fly is an insect."? Or is the use of "zeh" just another way to say “(this) IS (that).”? Thanks so much for your help! :)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/NaftaliFri1
NaftaliFri1
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It's wrong, because "to be" is omitted before adjectives, but when you're describing a general type and have the indefinite article, זה/הוא/היא is compulsory.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PabloStanfield

Define " OK " -- all your younger Israeli speakers will say 'no', but classical (Biblical and rabbinc[medieval])Hebrew, until 1947 didn't use that construction. As pointed out above it's an import brought by Polish and Russian Jews immigrating to Israel in the last 30 years. In the Tanakh it is WRONG to use it as a copula. Israeli is one of the fastest changing languages in the world. (and a lot of hubris about speaking the latest slang).

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/biauwaz
biauwaz
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Why does the voice here say [xarak], while on wikipedia it says the pronunciation is [xerek] and so does forvo? Is this a matter of dialect?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/NaftaliFri1
NaftaliFri1
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See daswasserfrau's comment above

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/chatulshachor

How would I negate such a sentence? .חתול לא זה חרק (A cat is not an insect.) Is this right?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/zemblance

חתול זה לא חרק, not חתול לא זה חרק

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/NaftaliFri1
NaftaliFri1
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That is great.

Another way, less used, is "חתול אינו חרק"

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/chatulshachor

תודה רבה נפתלי.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Rafy65146

זבוב First time l heard this was in the name Beelzebub

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/xerostomus

The same to me: William Golding: The Lord of flies. :-)

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/xerostomus

Yes. The same to me. William Golding: The Lord of Flies.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mark436414
Mark436414
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why is הוא used here?

5 months ago
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