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  5. "האמנים רוצים לבנות בתי מלאכה…

"האמנים רוצים לבנות בתי מלאכה."

Translation:The artists want to build workshops.

June 23, 2016

24 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ani_sofer

Could בתי מלאכה also be translated as "studios"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlmogL

No. I would translate studio as סטודיו, and if I had to use the plural, I would do my best to avoid it. :-) And if I was absolutely forced I would form an awkward סטודיואים.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamReisman

could you not translate studio as אולפן or is this just a language school?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ani_sofer

I have heard it used to refer to a studio like for recording a TV show and such.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/weitzhandler

If I'm not wrong, when a definite article (הא הידיעה) comes before a Kamatz Katan (as in האמנים), it also becomes a Kamatz Katan, which in case it should be pronounced Ho'ománim rather than Há'omanim. Anyway, I'm not %100 sure I'm right anyway. I have encountered similar occurrences in the bible and I think that's the rule, hope to find one one day and come back here to comment one...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariel621292

Native Israeli here. Even if you are right (which is totally possible), in Spoken Hebrew nowadays it will not be pronounced Ho'omanim but rather Ha'omanim.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JGduolingoer

Hello, I have a question, is there any difference between אולפן לסטודיו


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/radagastthebrown

As far as I know that's not true, it can either be a "ha-" or a "he-". As Ariel wrote in modern Hebrew it's always pronounced "ha-".

https://www.safa-ivrit.org/nikud/yedia.php


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, you confuse this it with the one-syllable prepositions used without article before a Chataf-vowel. "To an/in an/like an artist" would be in traditional style לׇאֳמָן [looman], בׇּאֳמָן [booman] and כׇּאֳמָן [kooman]. But "the artist" and "to the artist" would be הָאֳמָן [haoman] and לָּאֳמָן [laoman]. Not that you do not see the difference between [looman] and [laoman] even with niqqud!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dov360473

That's really interesting. I think you are suggesting that the nikkud is prescriptive, but that the actual pronunciation follows a "common practice". As, for example, all the words with a ת in them, like זֹאת, are pronounced zot, instead of zos, despite their nikkud.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, the difference is that לָּאֳמָן [laoman] has a usual קָמֵץ, but לׇאֳמָן [looman] a קָמֵץ חָטוּף, which is used in closed, unstressed syllables, but is here accompanied by an auxiliary חָטֵף after a guttural (Silbensprengung in German), like f.e. in the pseudo-dual צׇהֳרַ֫יִם noon. This is a sort of vowel assimilation, where [ləʔoman] became [loʔoman]. "Common practise" of course is to get rid of these intricacies. PS. The pronunciation of קָמֵץ with two different timbres is of course against the prescriptive Tiberian tradition and of some considered erraneous or suspect (Ibn Ezra), but is part of another (Babylonian, were קָמֵץ חָטוּף is usually [u]?) tradition and has become traditionalised for Modern Hebrew (like חָכְמָה wisdom always pronounced with [o]) too. PPS. To pronounce תֿ as [s] (coming from the original [θ] as in thing) is a tradition of the Hebrew of European Askkenazim and has been abandoned due to the minimalistic merger in Modern Hebrew with תּ. But that is another story.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nanetterand

the audio sounds like האומנים . Is that right or should it be ha'amanim


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamReisman

Ha-Omanim is correct. If it had nikkud, the vowel would be a kamatz katan.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zdeka985336

אמן should be written אומן without nekudot and אָמָּן with nekudot, אמנים should be written אומנים without nekudot and אָמָּנִים with nekudot. https://www.pealim.com/dict/4558-oman/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/radagastthebrown

The rules of spelling without nikkud are not rigid, so it's not wrong to either write אמן or אומן.

Specifically, the Hebrew Academy recently changed the rules - with the former version, it is spelled אמן and אמנים; with the new version, it is spelled אומן and אומנים.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tom273734

Is the word מלאכה related to מלאך - angel?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Yes, both are derived from the root ל-א-ך to send. מַלְאָך is a messenger, often from G-d. מְלָאכָה is a work, you are send to, i.e. a mission.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rBhr5

Query: does בתי מלאכה also apply to 'metaphorical' workshops - what in English we would call, for instance 'writing workshop's, 'assertiveness-training workshops' and so on - that is, courses or classes that don't necessarily involve a physical 'workshop'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, i guess everywhere where work is done, you may call it so: בית מלאכה לספרי ילדים workshop for children books or בית-מלאכה של צייר workshop of a painter should work fine too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, סַדְנָה is the better word I admit... Aramaic סַדָּנָא or סְדָנָא seems to have been originally been a block or a trunk, especially an anvil, and was associated with the work of smiths, millers and potters, so the word sounded like hard work too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rBhr5

Thanks for that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/radagastthebrown

You'd usually use the word סדנא (or סדנה in modern spelling) for that.

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