"יש לנו יינות ובירות."

Translation:We have wines and beers.

June 24, 2016

62 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marnie195447

When speaking/listening (not written), how do you distinguish between "and" and "or" in these cases?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

If you're listening to someone talking in a casual context (rather than the news on the radio), "and" will always be "ve-", so easy to distinguish.

If it is news on the radio, hopefully they'll pronounce the /u/ of "and" sufficiently different from the /'o/ of "or".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carbis

I too found it hard to distinguish between "ובירות" and "או בירות".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarrieYael

I have the same issue. I think you have to listen carefully for the "oo" sound (meaning "and") or the "oh" sound (meaning "or").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Annemarie0719

Isn't wine a collective noun in english? A glass of wine, many glasses of wine, not wines?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Neshariym

Yes. The English should be "We have wine and beer." I cant think of a single time in the USA that I have ever heard the word 'wines'. It is just like the word 'fish'. Nobody here says 'fishes' because it is 'incorrect'.

Perhaps it would be correct to say 'wines' when saying something in a comparitive sentence like this 'We have many different kinds of wines to choose from", but still that does not sound fully correct, and "We have many different kinds of wine to choose from" does not sound incorrect here. I doubt anyone would correct another person in the USA if they said 'wine' in this example.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oateasse

Perhaps one might rather say: We have many different wines to choose from. or We have many different kinds of wine (to choose from).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Grafdog

Yes, in most cases. But if you're referencing the fact that there are different types, you could use "wines". :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hadassah277241

You could say wines if you were referring to different types but more commonly you would say different types of wine, pluralising the word type rather than wine. Usually wine is used in the singular


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Its-me.

The restaurant has five wines and twelve beers on their drink menu, would be an example


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kajsdhiaugduqbj

"Wine" is often used as a collective noun in English, yes, but I think the lessons are trying to put more stress on the difference between singular and plural when making us write 'wines'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

yesh lánu yeyinót u-bírot.

(colloquially, it will be ve-bírot)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pjmacklin

Should ובירות start with a 'v' sound? "Vahbeerot" or "Oobeerot?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cymelo
  • 2789

After the letters בומ"פ the vav is pronounced as "oo". But in colloquial Hebrew people always use the "ve" pronunciation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AntiageWellness

After is not BEFORE! In this sentence is clearly oo before 'birot'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hamutaltul

considering the fact that Conjunction-Vav is a prefix, it always comes before the word. plus, I disagree with @Cymelo that in colloquial Hebrew people always say "ve", there are people who use "oo" pronunciation as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Who are those people? I'd be quite astonished to hear "oo", except in numbers that end with "ושתיים" or "ושמונה".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EdvntL

If they make a point of saying "oo" in this recording, shouldn't they have also said "v" -- uvirot?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

No, see comments by Hamutaltul and IngeborgHa14 below.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChristineC956528

They meant to say before


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimCopelan1

But it is not after any of those letters? I don't understand


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Angel839641

She meant BEFORE


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Angel839641

You mean "Before"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ploomich

it's good if you recognize this OO as "and", but if you get to speak hebrew just always say VE.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Leshonim

Would some native speakers try and correct you if you say it like that (like when you use "who" instead of "whom" in English)? Or not even the most stuck up purists would mind?


[deactivated user]

    I am the purist and I would say "u-" :P


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

    If someone tries to correct you for saying /ve-/ when you "should" say /u-/, ask for signature, you've just met the celebrity http://go/wiki/Avshalom_Kor (-:

    Seriously though, if one is inclined to correct her conversation mate for this "mistake" they wouldn't be able to make any conversation at all in Israel. I was surprised to read in this discussion Hebrew speakers who claim they say /u-/. I'd like to talk with them one day (-:


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AvdielYeshua11

    Who/whom is about subject/object. U or ve means and. O means or (sounds similar in Hebrew and English and Spanish!).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimCopelan1

    I would rather be above reproach when it comes to grammar! Lol


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdoorenb

    Easily the most practical sentence I've learned yet.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Panchete1

    Shouldn't be "wines" = יינים since it's a masculine word? or is it an irregular one?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/neriah23

    Yes, it's irregular. Someone posted a very helpful chart in a discussion recently: https://www.safa-ivrit.org/irregulars/pluralfm.php These are all masculine words with a feminine plural and: https://www.safa-ivrit.org/irregulars/pluralml.php. These are all feminine words with a masculine plural.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Panchete1

    Cool, that was useful, thanks! :) And... when the nouns change in the plural form, do the adjectives have to match that new gender?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/neriah23

    Not as far as I know. I saw some sentences while practicing (can't remember them at the moment) which had these irregular plurals, but then the adjective stayed in the original gender. So I guess we really have to learn which plurals are irregular, otherwise we'll mess up the adjectives ;)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Panchete1

    Really? Mmm... it's becoming harder than I thought. I like it! :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hamutaltul

    @neriah23 is right. the gender of the plural word, even if it is one of the exceptions, stays just like the gender of the sungular (so if i want to say that these wines delicious i would say "היינות האלו טעימים" , despite the feminine suffix.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BarakSaltz

    In ובירות, is there variability regarding whether the ב is pronounced as B or V? By the way, I would identify בירות as a recognizedly non-Semitic loan word; a concept of interest in terms of non-Semitic loanword ק being potentially contrastively phonemic with respect to Semitic ק in Hebrew accents or dialects preserving ק as a uvular stop. Non-Semitic K usually becomes ק in Hebrew rather than כ


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hamutaltul

    it is a non-semetic loaned word. when it comes to loaned-words it should sound like the original so bi-ra (not vi-ra). there is a rule in hebrwe that when words start with the letters ב,כ,פ it will alweys be with Dagesh (one type of Niqqud) that makes them sound like B,K,P, and when these letters are not the first letter of the word it depends on the word itself. but as I said, in loaned-words it is like the original.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mick335191

    In Hebrew, is the word יינות equivalent to "wines" in English? I.e. Is it used more to describe varieties in the plural.? The singular in English- I.e. "a wine" is fairly ambiguous and could mean either a glass of wine, or a particular variety/brand/vintage depending on context. Is that also the same in Hebrew? Examples: "we have a selection of wines from which to choose."-plural "I had two glasses of wine" singular but qualified. Beer in English can easily be used in both ways, where the plural usually implies a plurality of bottles or glasses (at least in Australia).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hamutaltul

    the word יינות describes selection of wines, not amount of wine.

    I bought five bottles of wine - קניתי חמישה בקבוקי יין I don't know what kind of wine to buy, their variety of wines is enormous - אני לא יודע/יודעת איזה סוג יין לקנות, מבחר היינות שלהם ענק


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AntiageWellness

    And need to clearly pronounce Hebrew "and" instead of clearly sounding "or". Specially for basic level. How one could recognize "and" in the same pronounced as "or"???


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hamutaltul

    "and" is either 've' [like in co-ve-r] or 'oo' [l-oo-p] while "or" sounds like "o'" (like the first syllable in the word obvious).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MjlbwpYl

    'wines' and 'beers' in english is six ways to sunday incorrect!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

    It seems segolates with a יוד in the middle usually contract the two vowels when losing the stress: יִַ֫ין – יֵינוֹת or זַ֫יִת – זֵיתִים (olive) or the form בֵּית־ from בַּ֫יִת.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Skaseforever

    What's the word for ' spirits ' ?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

    If you are interested in demons, there are the שֵׁדִים from Deut 32.17 and Psalm 106.37.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

    Since this is a sentence that says "we have wines and beers", I am pretty sure Skaseforever meant "spirits" as in alcoholic beverages - which would be משקאות חריפים (pronounced mashka'ót charifím) - not those kinds of spirits.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/schala09

    The speaker seems to pronounce יינות as "yay-nōt", but elsewhere, I've heard יין pronounced as "yain" (like ahh + ee + n). Am I hearing this correctly? If so, what accounts for the pronunciation difference?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hamutaltul

    yain (יין) - singular, yaynot (יינות) - plural


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

    Attemtping an explanation, but it's an amateur's guess. The transition from /a/ to /i/ is phisiologically hard, the tongue has to move a lot. It's bearable when the /a/ has the stress, in /ya-in/. The pluralization takes the stress away to the /not/. Then the transition is "smoothed" to /ei/.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Celioluzverde

    Locutor's break after wine, plus the connotation of question, leads to mistakes.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Duncan498672

    Should ובירות be pronounced oohbirot or oohvirot?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

    /ubirot/ is probably more correct, for the reason Ingeborg explained. It's kind of an "academic" question: in every day speech we'd just say /vebirot/.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

    Well, in classical Hebrew a plosive בּ [b] always was spirantised to its allophone בֿ [v], if the conjunction וְ־ preceeded it. As בִּ֫ירָה is an Indo-germanic loan word cognate to beer and in these languages [b] and [v] contrast (like a bet is not a vet), they resist this change, as the sound has become a phoneme of its own, the same as you do say הַפִ֫יזִיקָה physics, and not [hapiziqa], although this form should be expected, because the פ is mapped to the European, originally Greek sound. Notice that בּ is still a labial, so and can become here וּ־ [u] too.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DarylBrede1

    In English you could also say "we have wine and beer" it is unlikely that the plural would be used. In fact, it seems convoluted, like you're trying to stress that you have more than one brand (why? Who doesn't?), though the meaning is the same. The singular translation should be accepted.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

    It's an exercise. In English both wine and beer sound off, if not wrong in the plural, but not in Hebrew. It's an exercise to help us understand how Hebrew works. However, if you have a genuine complaint, you can always report it by pressing the small flag. This forum is not monitored by the contributors of the course, but is used for questions and discussions.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cuxb15

    When is pronounced "u" and when "ve"? Please


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

    Well, in two cases: If the word starts with a labial (consonants articulated with the lips like ב ,פ ,מ or ו) or if the first consonant (unless it is a י) has a Shva as its vowel.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kajsdhiaugduqbj

    'Ve' is a more informal, whereas 'u' is more formal, and commonly heard on things like radio and television.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

    For more information about this and to see examples, you can search online for: Hebrew BUMAF (the acronym for this rule).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sondra612503

    Review this exercise, which states: We have wines and cakes. So NONE of the comments relate to the actual statement. AND, in Hebrew: יש לנו יינות ועגיות However, the choice of ועגיות did not exist and was replaced by בעוגיות


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

    What are you talking about? It says "beers" not "cakes"! בירות. There are no cakes mentioned. And also עוגיות would be cookies and עוגות would be cakes.

    I don't understand, though, where was ועוגיות replaced by בעוגיות? Do you mean multiple choice? Or word bank? Both are randomly generated by the system.

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