"הנעליים אצלי."

Translation:The shoes are with me.

June 26, 2016

37 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MartyGlaubitz

May the shoes be with you


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elana1818

Mystery solved: we're all correct. "At mine" sounds absolutely bizarre to American ears, but it works just fine across the pond.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hopebradley1

Yep! I'm English and can confirm this is a perfectly normal thing for us to say, and very common


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Its-me.

Sounds normal to Canadian ears as well


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larry824711

There is really no English equivalent of "אצל", but I believe it is the same as the French "chez". Any French speakers here who can verify that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tony42064

Native French speaking here. You are right, אצל often means "chez"" in French.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RuthZ1..

Absolutely. When I first met this word and it did not fit the English norms, I smiled and thought this will annoy the English speakers, it is chez, of course. This is why everyone is arguing about it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

50-60 years ago, when the French cultural influence in Israel was stronger than it is today, you'd see hair parlors and kiosks called אצל מיקי etc. - definitely a translation from French.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitry_Arch

Why do think it was the French cultural influence if the same structure is used in Russian?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

It's from before I was born, so a second-hand knowledge. One popular scholar, Ruvik's Rosental, claims so in http://www.ruvik.co.il/%D7%94%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8-%D7%94%D7%A9%D7%91%D7%95%D7%A2%D7%99/2003/25042003.aspx; I think I read it elsewhere, too, as a common knowledge, but not 100% sure. I guess the signs for a French influence is (a) at the time (and still now), a French aura is more suitable to make a business look attractive. (b) At about the same time, many businesses of partners took the name "כהן את לוי". This את is obviously meant to mean "and" - but how comes, when in modern Hebrew it doesn't mean that, and actually sounds weird at first? Indeed it's half-justified by the fact that in Biblical Hebrew את meant "with", and it survived in modern Hebrew when inflected (איתו etc. from an earlier lesson in the course). But the real reason for coming up with this את, again according to scholars and maybe a common knowledge, is the french "et".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarolineTova

Indeed! It means CHEZ in French, so does not mean at all that "the shoes are with me" as Duo suggests it to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marti_MG

@CarolineTova: Literally, no. And specifically for shoes? maybe not. But, nevertheless, ce n'est pas vrai! Not true! not only do people use it colloquially for smaller things (in one's pocket or close by) to mean "i've got them/it with me", "ils sont chez moi", but there are other non-literal expressions that employ it, as well. En plus, il y a d'autres expressions qui l'utilisent aussi, comme "keske tu cherches chez moi?" qd qqn t'embette. "ça ne marche pas [comme ça] chez moi!" en parlant de tes habitudes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Menasheh

אצלי is translated as "at mine." That doesn't make any sense!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/airelibre

It does make sense. Think אצלי בבית.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

It doesn't work that way in English AFAIK. You would say "at my place"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/airelibre

Trust me, you can say "at mine" or "over mine".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

Looks like many of the commenters would prefer "by me", which is not currently accepted, to "at mine". Should at least add that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elana1818

"By me" for אצלי isn't standard English, it's Yeshivish (an English sociolect.)

From Wikipedia: "The preposition 'by' has a wide array of meanings in Yeshivish […] A possible cause for this is that the Yiddish preposition 'bei' is defined as at, beside or by. The similar-sounding English preposition 'by' has come to encompass these meanings."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshivish


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Liam_1948

Yes this is a mistake I saw as well. I hope they will fix it. :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MissFeatherton

I wrote "The shoes are with me", and it was correct. This would be correct if you bought a new pair of shoes and someone asked where they were and you'd say, the shoes are with me. Am I the only one that thinks this is right as a native English speaker? Heh


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

I think you should report it. It's valid.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mariniel_Junior

Is "אצל" like "bei" in german? For example, as in "bei mir". I think that would have a better correspondence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Going from Hebrew to German, I believe it is - you can translate most if not every אצל to "bei". Going in the other direction, sot so well - "bei" has many more uses than אצל.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

In addition to French and German parallels, it looks like Arabic prep. 3ind ("at"), عِنْد, used for possession (I have, he has, etc.) is an additional parallel.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michael112818

As far as I know, yes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BethBruch

So "the shoes are with me" would not mean the shoes are on my side in the robot uprising....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Ha-na’alayim etsli.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mabel544786

I think this whole dispute is about English grammar, if it is ok to use the short slang form "at mine" meaning "at my place" or not. I guess most of us understand the Hebrew meaning. By the way: In Norwegian we say "hos" for the word עצל...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marti_MG

Lest we forget: ביַי מיר ביסטו שיין

However, it has been translated as בשבילי אתה יָפֶה

However, ביַי מיר still means אצלי

[I could say bella, bella, even sehr wunderbar Each language only helps me tell you how grand you are]

Hebrew version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lika1oMJvXY

Yiddish version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSVw0iye9Gw

French version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gtQDdquhwI (with interesting history (in English) of the song under the video)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanielHolb1

Could you also say הנעליים הם איתי


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

It doesn't sound to me outright terrible, but a little bit awkward.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jeftakels

Can this also mean "The shoes are here"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

Not really. On top of what Theresa said, אצלי basically means "at my place" This sentence could be said, for example, if you are somewhere else and you realize that you forgot/left the shoes back home.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Even though the essence of your phrase captures the meaning of the phrase “The shoes are with me”, the word “here” does not occur in the Hebrew.

Look at it this way. The phrase “it’s not incorrect” basically means “it’s correct”. They convey almost the same idea but with different vocabulary, so it’s best to stick with the Hebrew vocabulary as much as possible.

The DL team can’t possibly anticipate every answer which captures the essence of the target sentence but with different vocabulary.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MariaBeren430744

"Ботинки у меня" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marti_MG

У меня есть туфли. Где? Туфли здесь, со мной.

יש לי נעליים. איפה? הנעליים כאן איתי.

"הנעליים אצלי." Translation: The shoes are with me.

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