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  5. "אף אחד לא זוכר את העכביש הוו…

"אף אחד לא זוכר את העכביש הוורוד."

Translation:Nobody remembers the pink spider.

June 28, 2016

46 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArianaClavenna

I think I'd remember a pink spider


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FerEtayoRguez

On the other hand, he must be right. I for one do not remember the pink spider...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MardukSky

Maybe Duo was confused, and it was a Panther.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shlomo175725

Me too but I've never seen a pink spider and if I have I certainly don't remember it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoahOskow

אני לא רוצה לזכור אותו ...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MERRCEDES

Sorry, why ורוד take another ו? Which is the correct word for pink?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/synp
  • 536

Standard Hebrew would be "הורוד". However, we don't have nikkud, so they invented this thing called ktiv maleh (כתיב מלא) where we add vowel-like letters to aid in readability. The extra vav here is to prevent you from reading this as horod.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hannah649004

So can "הורוד" mean "the pink " or not


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/synp
  • 536

Yes, this is the standard way. You are allowed to double the vav for better readability, but not required to.

It is better to be consistent, though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

I'd say it's a formal standard of writing without niqqud to use double vav in this case. Using one is, at least arguably, a mistake.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ultorex

Since Vav is pronounced as a vowel in most cases, they write two Vavs if it is pronounced v. But at the beginning of a word, it can only be a v, so you don't need to double it. According to that, you write ורוד, but הוורוד.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda118050

I believe it is because of the ה at the beginning of the word and because the word starts with a vav. I think I remember seeing that on one of the other lesson discussions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jacques_JD

...except maybe for the bear that found a carrot and was singing with it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/avipars

Why is it a double negative?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/synp
  • 536

Strictly speaking, there is not a double negative here. The word אף is short for אפילו, meaning even. It is not a negative word.

אף אחד לא זוכר

"Even one (person) does not remember" is the literal English word-for-word translation, and the meaning is that not even one (person) remembers.

So there's just one negative word in there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jayantshaq

Yes, very interesting, thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flootzavut

https://www.duolingo.com/skill/he/Determiners

"Standard Hebrew, like many other languages, makes use of double negatives ("he didn't do nothing", rather than "he didn't do anything")."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnCatDubh

It’s not. It literally means ‘even one doesn’t’, or rather ‘not even one [person]’.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

I know. It's awful to the native English speaker, but used in Hebrew. My mind is having trouble with accepting it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/synp
  • 536

I'm not sure who you are replying to, but as I explained above, there is no double negative here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

And your comment above is very helpful but WAS NOT shown in the app. (So it's the first time I'm seeing it). My comment was based on what responses I did see and the definition shown for "even " (nobody). (To be honest it's shocking to see so many responses that were written months ago but were NOT shown to me in the app). Thanks for responding!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xerostomus

I am a bit confused because of the song יש לי אח קטן. How to say: I have just one nose? יש לי רק אף אחד Is it the same as nobody?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/synp
  • 536

The second meaning does not have a negative. It would be translated literally as:

I have only even one.

יש לי רק אפילו אחד

And this is meaningless in both languages, which is a clue that the real meaning of אף in this sentence is nose rather than even. But you could create a confusing sentence with a negative:

אין לי אף אחד

I don't have one nose

I don't have anyone


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RivkaRosen

Perhaps it was an hallucination.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sam_wise_gamgee

Who could forget the pink spider? And what sort of spider is pink, anyway??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carissa789117

Crab spiders can be pink.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anas276

When אף is used?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/synp
  • 536

The word אף is a short form of the word אפילו, which means "even".

The combination אף אחד is the same as אפילו אחד which means "even one"

Although there are counter-examples, אף is nearly always used in combination with a negative such as לא, as in this example: אף אחד לא. Literally, this translates to "even one doesn't", but that's the wrong word order for English. More correct is "Not even one" or "no-one".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Is this also where they get: Af al pam?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/synp
  • 536

I think you mean "af al pi" - אף על פי

That last word is a variation of the word mouth (peh - פה). It's a strange variation that is only used in this idiom: על פי. This idiom (literally "on the mouth of") has two meanings: 1. "according to" - where the mouth connotes someone saying something. 2. "on the edge" - for example, על פי התהום - on the edge of the abyss.

This phrase comes from the first meaning. אף על פי - even according to. You add a factual clause, usually introduced with the connector ש (sheh), like so:

אף על פי שאני משתמש בדואולינגו af-al-pi that I use Duolingo - even with the fact that I use Duolingo

And the phrase means "although" - although I use Duolingo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

yes thanks! It was in the same section on Memrise, I don't know why I combined them.... Would you, if you don't mind - I have this question about another phrase I heard today (in the Gil Vain (Dj Only) song Tsvaim;

הוא אומר הכל כשהוא) אצלה על הפנים. I tried to put parenthesis around the part I only added for context, but wasn't confused about, but it's not cooperating...

he's on her face? I looked at lyricstranslate but the translator wrote he wasn't fluent and there might be mistakes, and I looked it up in Reverso app. There's a few lines that are tricky for me to understand but I hope to in time; this phrase seems more of an expression however (although I obviously don't know!) It (Reverso) says al hapanim can also be a rude word (their expression) , apologies if this is the case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

For the slight chance that you're still curious... Literally, על הפנים indeed means "on the face". It's also a slang idiom meaning "lousy" (שיר על הפנים, אני מרגיש על הפנים). I don't know the etymology. It was born some 35 years ago or so, and still retains popularity.

In this song... I'm not completely sure what he means. My best guess is that he uses it for the idiom slang meaning. אני אצלה על הפנים could be interpreted, with some poetic license, as "I'm at her place (or at her bosom) and all broken up".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/synp
  • 536

It's not on her face, but it's on the face.

The image this phrase is evoking is of falling. Just falling is bad enough, but falling on the face is even worse.

Comparable to the English idiom "face down in the muck" only without the death implications.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HTIKVA

I remember it, it was two shades of pink! she was singing the blues!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chanieHoff

Why can't it be "Does anyone remember the pink spider"? Also why are there two "ה's"? העכביש הוורוד? Also why is it הוורוד and not הוורד? Please help


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/synp
  • 536

So many questions. Let's take them one by one.

Why can't it be "Does anyone remember the pink spider?". Because that is a question, while the Hebrew is a statement. It's a totally different sentence.

Why are there two ה's. That's the rule with adjectives in Hebrew - the definite article (which is a prefix ה) attaches to both the noun and the adjective. In English it precedes only the adjective ("the pink spider"), but in Hebrew it precedes both.

Why הוורוד rather than הוורד - The word is pronounced "ha-varod". Why are you trying to eliminate the vav that marks the 'o' sound? Anyway, most colors are formed like that: four letters, third one is a vav, sounds are Ah+Oh: אדום, ירוק, שחור, צהוב, כתום, ורוד, סגול


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chanieHoff

Ok I get that. What was the reason for two "וו" in ורוד again? Also why isn't "No one remembers the pink spider" not acceptable? Why only "nobody" Thank you for your clarification.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/synp
  • 536

One by one again:

The double vav is a clue to us readers that this should be pronounced "ha-va-rod" rather than "ho-rod". Because vav has a dual role as both a vowel indicator and as a consonant, this doubling is sometimes used (when there are no diacritics) to show a consonant vav.

"No one remembers the pink spider" should be accepted, but Duolingo is not some advanced, Hebrew-speaking AI. It has a list of correct answers that the people who created this course entered. If that answer isn't there, it's not going to be accepted. If you report it, they may add that answer. It has worked for me many times.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emile.zvi

מתי דואלינגו עושה מריוונה


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

ממתי דואולינגו עושה מריחואנה (-:


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Drago02129

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