"כלבים וכלבות."

Translation:Dogs and dogs.

June 28, 2016

72 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/philosomedic

It sounds like: klevim o khlavot, shouldn't it be klevim v klavot?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

Nice catch.

The ו indicating "and" does not usually have a vowel. However, it might receive one when the first consonant in the word is also vowel-less,to avoid double letters with no vowel.

At times, this means "ve" turns to "oo".

In addition, the letter כ has two sounds - /k/ and /kh/. the difference is grammatical, so adding a letter before it may change its sound.

Both together account for what you hear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/philosomedic

Seems complicated!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

Takes getting used to :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SammySalte

How does this sound distinct from "כלבים או כלבות"? Is the "oo" longer in או?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marva441926

The vowel in the Hebrew או is "oh" like in "corn". The vowel of the ו in וכלבים is "u" like in "rude".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/enorby

Then when you are listening, how do you know the difference between this expression and כלבים או כלבות (dogs or female dogs)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

You didn't read through the rest of the comments, which explain that.

Easy, because they are not pronounced the same. ו "and" is pronounced like "oo" in "good". או "or" is pronounced like "o" in "not". (as pronounced in British English)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ClozemasterDBest

Sorry teacher, it hasn't been this way, at least here in Duo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

What do you mean, it hasn't been this way? How else could it have been?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Geo101770

Surely you meant to say that או "or" is pronounced like the "o" in "note," not "not."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

No, I meant "not", but I didn't specify that it should be like the British pronunciation, not American. I edited my comment to add that remark. It should not be like "note", because the "o" in that word is rounded and Hebrew doesn't have a vowel sound like that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rosegaspard1

But how are we suposed to tell when to use the different sounds?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

You don't need to worry about it for now. If you're a beginner, it would be too overwhelming to read about all the rules. Besides, apart from people on TV and radio nobody speaks like that. So, for now, don't worry about it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JGonduolingo

It's klavim, not klevim


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/akhansson

If the word has two consonants in the beginning without a vowel after the first letter the "ve" becomes "oo". That's how I understand it. Correct me if I'm wrong. ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RRL210

Its really simple actually. If the word that you are putting 'and' before starts with the i sound, the shva, then you say oo. Otherwise it is the vi sound.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rosegaspard1

I agree. It said "ou" not "v"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dirbenjamin

"Curs and bitches" would also be correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/morvan82

Although no one but dog breeders would put it that way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AvdielYeshua11

Cur is a mongrel/aggressive dog, no matter what sex it is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ClozemasterDBest

My limited understanding got "Dogs and milks".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/L3xisPlex

uhm. Dogs and bitches is an option too, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

Yep, it's accepted!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

klavím u-chlavót.

Note: Correct pronunciation of כלבות is klavót, and here it changes to chlavót, because of the conjunction ו "and", which changes the sound of kaf into chaf. BUT. Even though klavót is the correct pronunciation, Israelis would rather say "kalbót" instead, analogous to the singular כלבה kalbá.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shirash

I offered male and female dogs and was marked as incorrect


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

Then you should report it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AllenInShorts

Same here. Very annoying after a prior question was translated as "male cats and female cats."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chordata96

..and dogs, and dogs, and more dogs


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/42.bqsyONJ01mdjS

גם וגם וגם וגם...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/superhebre

So how would one say "male dogs OR female dogs'? wouldn't that be 'klavim oo klavot'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CryogenicAce

It's pronounced kalbot, the recording is wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shimon4504

Male dogs and female dogs was the answer to a previous question but marked incorrect now. Dogs and dogs was the expected answer. Sorry an inconsistency here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Luchtmens

Is it klavot or kalbot? Or are both accepted?

Wiktionary says klavot, Forvo says kalbot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Skoubi_Doo

I was thinking exactly the same...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/imnotbisan

it sounds like כלבים או כלבות


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanuszWoro3

When you translate it as "dogs and dogs", something has been lost in translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lightdanger

Technically speaking it would more accurately correct to be written as 'Dogs and bitches' or 'Male dogs and female dogs' since such distinctions were made before...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marc383010

Yeah, I think that possibly the reason they don't encourage that translation is because they don't want to encourage use of the word bitches, even though it is still a standard use word among dog breeders and, I'm sure, others who make the male/female distinction professionally. They ought to simply be consistent among all animals. If the genders have names, than use them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lightdanger

Then instead of bitches use female dogs and male dogs. Honestly, there is a whole section here about gender so ignoring it here is super frustrating...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marc383010

Dogs and bitches


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agelastos

The audio sounds like "Dogs or dogs". Please check this!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hannah649004

Read NaftaliFri1 answer to a previous question. It explains why the " ו" changes to an oo sound in front of certain letters.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheOneAndOnlyBK

Immediately thought of the children's book "Go, Dogs, Go!"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArtSighterDevian

I think hebrew makes sense for me, but sometimes like that phrase above make me strugle to catch what does the things work in this language, I'm not saying I will give up on learning hebrew. Sometimes I heard: עכבישים=akavishim, akhvishim=צבים tzavim, tzabim. For God's sake what do it work because it's killing me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ukubabe5191

אני צריך עוד!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheSonz

I said dogs and dogs and it was marked wrong! O.o


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SaloOom.yag

I said that too but it's accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoeSullivan

How do I know this isn't כלבים או כלבות? It sounds the same to me as כלבים וכלבות.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marva441926

See my reply to SammySalte above.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danyelle774095

Why in one sentence you are forced to use specific gender terms and not others. Its annoying. This should say sire and bitch


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maria.Mikhaela

This is crazy : כלבים וכלבות which answer is supposed to be : male dogs and female dogs. Then my correct answer was rejected and the system says that the correct answer is :"dogs and dogs", this is stupid!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ClaudioAlbu7

I made a mistake by translating "דובים ודובות" as "bears and bears". I was once a lazy guy. But not this time!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimshonni

Is there an gender in this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lightdanger

Yes, the last two letters of the words denote whether it is male plural or female plural... (ים-male plural ות-female plural for clarity purposes, a "ה" at the end of a noun means it's female most of the time and if there is no "ה" than it is male) Hebrew is a gendered language...
Sorry, I just explain why this is so frustrating for so many...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HTIKVA

Will I ever use it in a conversation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mi.939.182

How exactly can you tell 'and' 'or' apart?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

Easy.

ו - and - pronounced "ve" or "u"

או - or - pronounced "o"

They are pronounced differently.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Benyamin744891

Including gender seems necessary here, otherwise why use both words?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/snixdad

For "the cat", the speaker says HA-chatool. But I thought for words beginning with a chet, "the" becomes "heh"; thus, "heh-chatool." Any thoughts?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

Not all words beginning with ח and not only ח - there are other letters that trigger the definite article to become "he". The rules are rather complex, and not really followed in everyday language.

But I don't exactly understand why you are asking that here? There are no cats in this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/netta676392

Danny....you are a helpful star.....thank you very much....todaraba


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TAD308940

Why is it not acceptable to translate this as " male dogs and female dogs" since the distinction is being made?

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