"We have all the colors but purple."

Translation:יש לנו את כל הצבעים חוץ מסגול.

June 29, 2016

31 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitry_Arch

Why can't we omit את here? "yesh lanu" literally stands for "there is at our disposal", so, technically, את is not supposed to be used with "yesh". I know it is commonly used with 'yesh" - presumingly, under the influence of Yiddish and/or Ladino syntax, yet it shouldn't be wrong to omit it. (To people whose native language is Russian or one of the Turkic or Finno-Ugrian languages, in other words, languages that have exact equivalents of "yesh" and "ein", using "et" with "yesh" is sheer nonsense.. I wonder what the situation is with other Semitic languages).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenSmart2

Agreed, does anyone have a definitive answer on why it's marked wrong when we omit את?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YamirRomer

Because it is accusative. So we need it in order to get a determinative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenHueb

It is easy to see that it is accusative in English, but the Hebrew construction does not show this. I need to go back and check, but does saying "I have the X" in English always necessitate writing "Xיש לי את ה" ? "I" would be the nominative in English, but in Hebrew "אני" is in a prepositional phrase. So, can you have an accusative noun without first having a nominative noun?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

Easy rule of thumb. If there is את it is always a direct object, which means it is accusative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

There is a bit of controversy about that question. There is quite a bit of discussion about it in some other threads here on DL where you can find those discussions. Basically, when the language was revived, את was not used in this construction, but with time, people started using it and now it's caught on, that it sounds weird without it.

A construction exists in Russian that is very, very similar to the Hebrew one. And I think somebody mentioned Celtic languages have a similar feature. So, it's not that unique.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenHueb

So the answer is that in Hebrew, "X יש לי", "X" is always considered a direct object and not just in this case? Is אני considered the subject even though it's in a prepositional phrase? I find it interesting because I don't remember coming across a similar setup in other languages - not that I have experience in all that many different languages.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arbaminim

I have a hard time bringing myself to say יש את - https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%99%D7%A9_%D7%90%D7%AA


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KateJudd1

אין סגול, אין כיף!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Yesh lanu et kol ha-tsva’im khuts mi-sagol.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sheila547646

Is there a rule to when one should use חוץ and when to use מלבד??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MOYk6R

why isnt it possible to change place of the words כל and את. i am thinking of the song "cholomot shel acherim" where they sing "kol et ha yom" not "et kol ha yom"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoeRub1

I think כל את היום means all day and את כל היום means everyday.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

No, "כל היום" means "all day", and "every day" is "כל יום".
Duo explains this in the כל/כל ה section of the Tips for the "Determiner" skill on Duo's website, and in the compilation of Tips at https://www.duome.eu/tips/en/he

The word אֶת has nothing to do with the distinction between "all" and "every". It simply marks the definite direct object of a transitive verb, as explained in the Tips for the "Food 1" and "Dir. Obj." skills on Duo's website, and in the compilation of Tips linked above.

Also note that "everyday" is an adjective, not a noun phrase, so it is different than "every day".

b107 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

No, in the Idan Raichel Project song "חלומות של אחרים" ("Chalomot Shel Acherim"), he does not sing "kol et ha yom". It has "et hayom", but only in the phrase "הָבִיאִי אֶת הַיּוֹם", without "kol".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axCT1a_M0lc
https://shironet.mako.co.il/artist?type=lyrics&lang=1&prfid=1333&wrkid=22085

Please be careful to check your sources, since we are all trying to learn, and small differences can be significant.

b107 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tngraham

אני לא בטוח למה זה שגוי להשמיט "את" במשפט הזה.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/juliorodmax

חוץ and מלבד means thr same?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KateJudd1

As I understand it, חוץ means literally "outside of" (like
חוץ לארץ outside the country) מלבד means "except for" (think of the word לבד meaning alone


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CAA15

הלא ש" אלא" גם נכון בפעם הזה?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Walrosse

But works as an "except" here and "אלא" cannot be used in the same sense.

It usually comes in a sentence in a positive sense, as in to replace something that is not. For example: "I wasn't angry, but disappointed" - "לא הייתי עצבני, אלא מאוכזב".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CAA15

Okay, so it works like the expression: "except for".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeTzvi

Why isn't the following correct, it was marked wrong: יש לנו את כל הצבעים אבל סגול

I thought אבל means "but".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitry_Arch

“Aval” (אבל) is a different kind of “but”. In the given sentence, “but” means “except for”. Another example of this “but” is found in the famous song “Don’t sit by the apple tree with anybody else but me”.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

I'm in the Android app and they took away the underlining part to see your mistake, I spelt tsvaim wrong by adding a "on" accidentally (I Swype, so I Swyped and it wrote the wrong word, no matter,) but it didn't underline that the word was what was incorrect. Is this feature still accessible on ios and on the website? 4 April 2019


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sheila547646

I dont understand the use of מסגול . why not ל for implied word "for"or nothing at all just סגול


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

A very important rule is that you can never translate prepositions directly, because they rarely match. It's always better to remember phrases and go from there. Here, חוץ מ is simply an inseparable phrase that means "except for" (מ is attached to the next word) and that is how you need to remember it. So, חוץ מסגול - "except for purple".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GeoffreyWB

On a different subject, I'm having trouble with כל vs. כולם. Why is the singular כל used before הצבעים and not the plural כולם?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

Because כולם means "everybody" or "all of them". It can't be used here, because just like in English, you can't say "all of them colors", you can't do that in Hebrew either.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarolineTova

Why can't we replace חוץ מ with אך and אלא or מלבד? What ate the rules of usage of each?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

Here the problem is English, which can translate all those words with "but", but they are all not interchangeable. מלבד is the one that could also be used here. יש לנו את כל הצבעים מלבד הסגול. However, מלבד is more formal, so it is understandable that not every sentence accepts it. A better translation of חוץ מ is "except for" or "apart from".

As for אך, it is the basic word for "but", together with אבל. The difference between them is that אך is more formal and therefore less common. An example sentence: אני רוצה לבוא, אבל אין לי זמן. I want to come, but I don't have time. אך would have worked here as well.

As for אלא, this has the meaning "but rather". It is used to express the contrast between an affirmative and a negative statement. זה לא סוס אלא חמור. That is not a horse but (rather) a donkey.

Here are some additional posts I found, that deal with the same question:

https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/51681815

https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/39209751

https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/36886130

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