"כלביהם של הגברים שותים מים."

Translation:The men's dogs are drinking water.

June 30, 2016

28 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/evelyn3981

I haven't seen the redundancy of יהם- with של... before; is it frequent, and when does one choose to use it?

November 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/ChayaDoppelt

Its mostly formal but sometimes used informally

June 26, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/trevorist90

So if I wanted to say that it was the men drinking the water would I use -ש to create the subordinate clause?

August 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/radagastthebrown

Yes, כלביהם של הגברים ששותים מים = the dogs of the men who are drinking water

August 24, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/ChayaDoppelt

I think this sentence means the dogs of the men who are drinking water, as in the men are drinking water. I would say כלביהם של הגברים הם אלה ששותים מים

June 26, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/radagastthebrown

That's what he asked though ("...it was the men drinking the water...).

Your sentence means "the men's dogs are the ones drinking the water", which doesn't mean the men drink the water.

June 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/yeled_chara

From this sentence I infer that you can use both possessive construction at the same time?

June 30, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/AlmogL

Not exactly, although I see why it looks like that. You can say כלביהם or הכלבים שלהם, these are the two forms, so far you are right. But if you want to specify whose dogs particularly, you need to add של הגברים. If you used הכלבים שלהם, it would become הכלבים של הגברים. If you used כלביהם, you could say, כלבי הגברים, that's formally correct but not in daily use. Or you could say כלביהם של הגברים.

June 30, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/rokssolana

Well, this is confusing. Such redundancy in languages (like repeating the possessive twice, as a suffix and as a של-phrase) is not a common thing.

July 11, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/AlmogL

I don't know about common, but I'm sure examples can be found in any language. I would argue that all languages seem strange when we are not used to them.

July 11, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/AdamReisman

I've never heard of this in any other language. Hebrew seems to use the possessive pronoun suffix and then also include the actual possessed noun in the same sentence. For example, ספרו של האיש and הספר של האיש seem to mean the same thing and be used equally.

November 8, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/AlmogL

I'm not a linguist, nor do I know many languages, but I remember coming across the ne+pas combination in French and thinking: why do we need to negations? And when you say "I am", why do you need the "I"? "Am going" would be a perfectly unambiguous sentence if it were considered grammatical. In Hebrew where the verb is unambiguous we can drop the pronoun, for example, הלכתי. What's with the redundancy, English? :-)

November 8, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/AdamReisman

Good point! All languages have redundancies.

November 8, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/BarakSaltz

Patricia Kaas has a song called:

Mon Mec à moi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mon_mec_%C3%A0_moi

I would like comments on Hebrew translations of:

A. My own ...

B. My very own ...

January 19, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/boltushka

Turkish and Finnish are the examples

December 5, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/boltushka

Turkish and Finnish are the examples.

December 5, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ChayaDoppelt

I've definitely seen it in Spanish

June 26, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/PiperDeck

Redundancy is actually a critical componant of all languages. children use it to learn without explicit instruction through a process called bootstrapping, where they infer the meaning or grammar of a new element based on the familiar elements in the rest of the utterance. It also makes it easier for adult speakers to comprehend what someone is saying, even if some of the words are undiscernible or if part of the utterance is cut off, as happens frequently when people speak to each other in real time. This is probably why inherently redundant things like agreement and double negation are common among the world's languages :)

April 21, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Daniel495432

Well, we do have "a friend of mine" where, logically speaking, you might expect "a friend of me". Even, colloquially "a friend of mine's" which appears to be a triple redundant possessive. This is still weird, though.

December 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mia_rc

So is הכלבים של הגברים also correct?

July 3, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/AlmogL

Yes.

July 3, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Hannah649004

Please would you explain "כלבי הגברים" (your penultimate example). I thought that would mean "My dog the men".

Do you know if "כלביהם של הגברים" would be used in normal speech or communication. "הכלבים של הגברים" seems much more elegant to me but then my brain thinks in English not Hebrew!

November 19, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/AdamReisman

כלבי (kalbi) = my dog

November 19, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/AdamReisman

כלבי (kalvei) = dogs of

November 19, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/radagastthebrown

It's actually kalvey (and most native speakers would use kalbey).

As for what is used in normal speech, הכלבים של הגברים is the most common in this case.

ll כלבי הגברים is not great, would rarely be used if at all.

ll כלביהם של הגברים could be used, it's very common in newspapers, books, speeches, etc. when you want to sound more formal.

November 19, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/IngeborgHa14

I thought "their dogs" is pronounced כַּלְבֵיהֶם, i.e, [kalveyhem], not with [b]. Only the singular forms have a plosive, like כַּלְבִּי [kalbi] or כַּלְבְּכֶם [kalbkhem].

October 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JimCopelan1

Wouldn't it be the same to say, "כלבים של הגברים?"

The כלביהם feels like an unneeded complexity

July 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/radagastthebrown

You can say הכלבים של הגברים.

July 13, 2018
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