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"The beautiful shirts of the children are too small for them."

Translation:חולצותיהם היפות של הילדים יותר מדי קטנות עליהם.

June 30, 2016

27 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larry824711

I used "קטנות מדי" instead of "יותר מדי קטנות" and it was marked wrong. Any reason that shouldn't be correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keren_smecha

+1 גם יש לי השאלה.
it seems too redundant to have both יותר and מדי


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

Well, a lot of times, some phrases seem weird, incorrect, redundant but don't forget that every language has its own rules and we cannot look at the rules of a different language through the rules of our own language. Both versions Larry wrote are correct. "too small" can be translated in two ways. If they are not accepted, it means they didn't add it to the possible correct answers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanielSchn727197

Isn't it redundant to put the shirts in the possessed form before the use of shel?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

DL introduces us to an important feature of Hebrew--the redundant or anticipatory pronoun. It's common to Semitic languages (Arabic, Aramaic, Syriac) and is found in late classical Hebrew (Can 3:7). It was common in rabbinic Hebrew. Thus, when Hebrew was being revived, it would be odd to not have it be a feature of modern Hebrew. It's good to get used to it out of respect for the deep tradition and to be able to spot it when you see or hear it. E.g., אמה של הילדה, "the mother of the girl." And yet, you will be understood if you skip the redundant pronoun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WDalia

I was wondering the same thing


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jinny674449

I am wondering why the second correct answer is okay? Their shirts of the children is strange


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

Anticipatory pronoun is not strange to Semitic languages, but it is odd to many European languages. Having said that, Spanish has something somewhat analogous with the indirect object pronoun construction and modern Greek has both proleptic (anticipatory) and resumptive pronouns.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stef13131

I asked an Israeli: He says it's totally ok to say it like this. It may sound strange, but that's language. It's more a literary form, but everybody could use this double form of possession in everyday language, too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EmadelDin5

Thanks for your feedback.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rosegaspard1

That's what I thought. Its like saying " Their shirts of the children" that has to be wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/C1I61

Can one say “בשבילם” here instead of “עליהם“? I would be inclined to translate “עליהם” as “on them”, as “too small on them” is also a viable English construction.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheGerk1

I think just like in English, either is fine in Hebrew.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VivekRaman7

בשבילם not accepted in place of עליהם Why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Chultzoteihem ha'yafot shel ha'yeladim yoter midai ktanot aleihem.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hearttolearn

Could someone help me out on what "חולצותיהם" means and how is it pronounced? It looks like the words shirt and them squished together.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EmadelDin5

chul•tso•te•hem


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pousnika

And it means "their shirts".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrandonRHughes

I had the word order different, placing "too" after the "small", as in "חולצותיהם היפות של הילדים קטנות יותר מדי עליהם" This was marked wrong, but I didn't realize there was a specificity to word order for adjectives. Perhaps it's just a case where they haven't yet included such a variation into the application?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/raptor_jesis

Why is it not החולצותיהם?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

Because when you attach a suffix to a noun, it becomes definite by default, and ה is no longer needed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shalom698163

Why is there no ה in front of the Hebrew word for shirt


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

Recall that in a construct chain, the absolute noun takes the def art., as in עבד המלך, "the servant of the king," i.e., the king's servant." So here the def art is with הילדים and the word for shirts is "their shirts" with anticipatory pronoun (about which see comments above), lit. "Their beautiful shirts of the children."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

When you have a word with a suffix, there is no ה. So, החולצות שלהם becomes חולצותיהם

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