151 Comments
It's been so long, I'm just glad it actually made it into beta. Thank you all the team for your hard work! And especially Andersberny for making the announcements far more frequently!
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You'd better to remember it to recognize when heard, but say simply "yo 8" (jó éjt!) which is completely acceptable in any circumstances, both formal and informal. (The "yo 8" or even "yo8" ortographies are often used in internet chats and texting by the youth. But never write it this way outside those environments ;) )
A bit of explanation: éjszaka "night" is more like "nighttime" in English, but it is more frequently used. In this context "-szaka" is "of period" —you will meet this with the seasons where the season itself is "a period of the year", e.g. "évszak" (but this is never *"évszaka"). "Éj" as night is considered as poetic now, but it is completely valid. It is used in compounds mainly, and "jó éjt" is one of them that is completely acceptable.
It's way too difficult for a beginner. Thank you for the explanation. They should add it in the course! When you click on the words!
The more I read your comments, the easier it becomes for my new language skills. I do appreciate the fact that explanation follows. Thank you ALL for making this lessons better than programmed. EFR
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Welcome to reality :) I am living a few kilometers from Hungary and hungarian language is for me harder than any other I have ever tried to understand. Including Dutch, Welsh and Korean for example.
Hungarian is probably very difficult, so they should introduce new words one by one, not several at once.
Is Dutch so hard to understand then? (I am Dutch, so I have no clue how it sounds to foreigners).
Dutch is easy for a native Norwegian speaker that also knows English. Dutch seems like just a mixture of those two, and when written I can understand most of what people mean after learning a few basic words.
As far as languages go, Dutch is relatively easy to learn, though in my case, I have the advantage of being a native speaker in both English and French and also have basic knowledge of German, so maybe that's why I've found it much easier to grasp. Also, even though I worked in Amsterdam, I spent more time in the south (Limburg) and found that their accents are softer and easier to understand than those towards the north of Holland (that was just my experience, it's probably not the same for everyone).
Hungarian on the other hand is on a whole different level for me, but then again, it is one of the hardest languages to learn for English speakers but I like the challenge =D
I hope they'll change the difficulty level. They introduce too quickly new very long word. They should begin with "a", "little", "the", "girl" or word like that. And when you click on the word, it's not very well explained. You have to memorize the full sentence without understanding. Please, change that, I know this course is in beta, so I hope...
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Yes, sometimes it's hard for the hungarian people too. Actually I am hungarian so I know it. :)
as a hungarian native, i would suggest this to be shortened to "jo ejszakat". "kivanok" is quite polite :)
It would be a lot easier to memorize too!! This course is too difficult for real beginner!
Already on the basics on the Hungarian course and it looks so hard to spell the words :P
Yeah. I agree. I don't remember anything like this in Turkish, German, or Russian. XD
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polish spelling is a little tricky in terms of learning the diacritical symbols, but it is very straightforward and makes sense once understood.
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Oh boys, come on, Hungarian is almost as phonetic as Italian, Spanish or Cymraeg. Tricky spelling is an English and French feature. You just have to get accustomed the lettering, like in Welsh. Then it is almost fully predictable and easy, except when it isn't... (I think Welsh has lot of similarities in this aspect...)
Maybe predictable, but they should familiarize us with the pronounciation first.
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i agree, english and french are tricky. i would add irish. lots of letter combinations. i will clarify my comment on polish. it is predictable, and only tricky in the sense of learning diacritical symbols, but other than that, it certainly is straightforward.
As a French speaker, I find French very logics when you know the letter combination, when you know the rules for silent letters.
Yeah. That is what I like from Hungarian. French, oh my. That's why I'm not learning French and feel like don't want to learn it. Haha. English is better than French though.
If you think French is difficult then there is hope. I find French so very easy. It is like English pronounced drunk.
French is very logical, especially if you already know English, with a good method, French is easy.
French is one of the "mother" of English language. You have more than 50% of the word that are indeed French words but pronounced the English way and that became English words. If you speak English, you use French words everyday. When you talk about a "menu", a "restaurant", or any other thing. All the word ending with "tion" for instance, are French words, all the words ending with "ty" in English, are from French words, and you simply transform the "ty" into "té" to have the origin French word. When you know the tricks, it's so easy.
I would recommend any person who is in love with the English language, to learn French, as it gives a deeper understanding of the English language. For instance "restaurant" is called like this because it comes from a French verb meaning "eating to recover one's force" (se restaurer), very interesting, isn't it?
That's because those languages are based off of sounds and symbols of others. Hungarian is not. It is a language on its own, making it a little bit more difficult than most.
Many European languages have common roots and that makes their pronunciation and grammar at least similar. Hungarian has nothing to do with any commonly learned European languages like English, French, German, Spanish, Italian etc... The only one somewhat similar is the Finnish language. We did take some words from other languages, but pronunciation and grammar is very different.
Don't worry too much about sounds, try German, when drunk... it is a lot easy. Hungarian seems to be the type "take it by the horns" drilling and you will master it in the least expected time. The Latin roots (vowel sounds) make it light to guide yourself, try it slow and you will sound like a native.
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A friend told me an interesting thing and maybe she's right. She told me Italian has a very similar wovel set as Hungarian (except ö, ő, ü, ű). If you master the Italian, you may give a try to form the Hungarian wovels like in Italian. Even consonants are almost similar but there you should consider some French influence and not only German :D
I think the issue comes with the speaking of the words, as Hungarian has letter combos that produce 1 sound. This doesn't happen in English.
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ch, tch, sh, gh... "owe" (like in IOU). ;) But you are right. Every language has their approach that may be difficult for others. The Hungarian notation is really strange and I say this as a Hungarian myself. It is almost on level with Cymraeg (Welsh) that is fairly logical and consistent, but a real pain to learn.
I hope they'll make this course more beginner friendly, as other course on Duo. Introducing new words too quickly is not good for total beginners like us.
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As far as I understood well, Duolingo's structure is designed with Indo-European languages in mind. It was hard even to adapt to Celtic languages like Cymraeg, and it took ages to adapt to Hungarian. The structure is very different, and there are many more things to teach while the language trees must be within certain bounds. The developers of the Hungarian tree had to start over to adapt a different approach than the original tree structure was designed for, and even so they had to cram many things into the given frame. I have to admit that everybody's right who complain about the difficulty, but as far as I know this difficulty level is necessary to fulfil the DL requirements.
Just imagine how difficult would be a Chinese or Arabic course, with their completely alien tones, sounds and structures. As you "fiercely" stand for the ease of French pronounciation and say that the Hungarian phonetics is difficult, you just examining a problem from a single side. I can assure you that for us Hungarians, French is a real pain. I think we face the same old trouble from different sides :D (With all the respect and due admiration to French language and culture.) Saying one language is difficult and the other is easy is always assume an etalon, usually the mother tongue of the person. ;) For an Arab speaker the arabic is easy and completely logical while for me it is something that cannot do without the Philosophers' Stone :D
Well as a native English speaker I express anti-elation. There are so many things worng with English grammar &structure. I am actually motivated whenever consider my flawed language, and look at a better designed language such as german or hungarian. This way it motivates me.
Wouldn't this be "I wish you good night" and not "good night". I wish you good night should be an accepted translation
You are totally right, if You want to translate this sentence word by word, then it is "I WISH (you) good night"
what's the literal meaning of this? It seems there is more than good night
Jó = Good, éjszakát = Night, kívánok = I wish,
The sentence seems incomplete, because part of it is implied. In Magyarul a wish for something is directed at someone.
For example this greeting might be directed towards you (second person singular) Jó éjszakát kívánok neked ; neked - to you
Or directed towards a group (second person plural)
Jó éjszakát kívánok nektek; nektek- to you (plural)
Or if you want to be greedy with your wishes, you could direct this at yourself! :D Jó éjszakát kívánok nekem; nekem- to me
Hope this helps
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*"Jó éjszakát kívánok nekem" is actually wrong, we use a reflexive structure here. It would be "jó éjszakát kívánok magamnak" ("Good evening I wish to myself" [I followed the Hungarian word order here to make it easier to follow])
Another thing: *"In Magyarul" is a bit strange. It is either "In Magyar" or "Magyarul" because the -ul ending is for the "in". ;)
But your explanation is fine and I think it is also helpful. Have a lingot!
Hey HalbDeutschMann, what a what a coincidence, I have German heritage, too. :D Proud of both sides, too. :D
as a native hungarian speaker, i'd say this is a bit too formal for everyday use. i would suggest just using "jó éjszakát" or even just "jó éjt" if you're feeling colloquial
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It's more a style question. I am native speaker, too, living in Hungary, and I use the full version frequently. But except "jó éjt" any version is okay even in formal use. Don't hesitate to use the shorter ones!
holaaa,,,! he esperado! ayer tuve un sueño, y soñé que se abrió el curso de húngaro :D
Just to help anyone having trouble with this: Jó = Good, éjszakát = night, and kívánok = I wish. Jó éjszakát kívánok = I wish you good night :)
I think no - "good evening" is a greeting used at nighttime (in HU: jó estét) whereas "Jó éjszakát kívánok!" would be said as a farewell
Jó éjszakát: good night, jó estét: good evening. The word "kívánok" (I wish) should not be used always, it isn't obligatory. In everyday speech is rarely used, it is more polite form.
Don't PANIC!
To save breath the greeting is shortened.
Jó éjszakát kívánok neked ! Jó éjszakát kívánok ! Jó éjszakát !
Think of it like the old English phrase.
"Good night to you"
shortened simply to
"Good night"
The 'implied you' doesn't need to be said, because the person your talking to understands you are addressing them.
Oh dear... if THIS is just "Good night"... HELP! Heehe. Anyway, being serious now, I'd like to ask: is the pronunciation of the long vowels correct as we hear them here, or am I hearing long vowels were there aren't? And, the a without the accent is pronunced like a closed a, while de á is open (that's what I hear). If this is true, does it work the same for all vowels? Thanks! Szia!
Lol :) I can imagine how strange is our language for someone with other mother tongue...
But the pronunciation of the example sentences are perfect on this page. Here you can listen to the Hungarian pronunciation of the letters: https://youtu.be/JwtwZTRDvYI?t=23
Here is a short helpful video about the Hungarian greetings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-NIOJ62hzg
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You can use them in any situations, both formal and informal. It is totally acceptable to leave the most honoured person with this farewell and also suitable for say good night to your closest buddy.
I am pleased to practice my Hungarian for my trip soon, good luck to everyone learning this language as well.
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Not really. It is more polite though but it is completely safe to omit even in very formal circumstances.
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Yes, there is a rule of thumb. If you reply to the question "what quality" then say "jó"; when your question is "how" then say "jól".
"Jó" ("rossz", "nagy", "magyar", etc.) are qualities while "jól" ("rosszul", "nagyon", "magyarul", etc) are methods.
I could have looked up their official name but I always mix them up and it is easier to memorize I think. :D
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Nagyon szívesen! :D Mit iszunk? ;)
It is a funny customs in certain subcultures to ask about alcoholic drinks after a minor help or co-operation—or when one acknowledges that the other was right. ("Igazad van! Mit iszunk?") Don't use it in formal situations but you may give a funny little surprise among close friends if you crack this :D Perhaps they will offer some pálinka!
So this has multiple meanings? Good night would be without kÍvánok, and I wish you good night is with it added?
The meaning is the same for both sentences.
The i wish you part is implied:
Jó éjszakát kívánok neked !
Jó éjszakát kívánok !
Jó éjszakát !
The t at the end of éjszakát indicates that it is the object receiving the action of a verb.
The conjugated verb being kívánok in this case.
I have the feeling it only gets harder from here...
Also, should "goodnight" be accepted too?
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Keep an eye (or two) on them, they even change the meaning of the words... ;)
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That is actually wrong, "jó" means "good". (I think you got it but I mention to not confuse others who just meet my language.) :D
Hi! I wanted to ask what is the difference between "jó eszakàt" and "jó eszakàt kivanok"? What does kivanok change in the sentence and when is it used? ^^
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The word 'kívánok' means roughly "I wish you'. The greeting using that word is more formal.
kivanok to me thru usage with my parents means friends...like english in south is everybody.????good night everyone....
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I'm glad you have warm memories of your usage with parents. However, 'kívánok' is not a noun meaning 'friends'. It is a verb. The infinitive form is 'kívánni'. The -ok is the first-person ending used on many Hungarian verbs. The word means 'I wish'.
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I am not sure that I understood pnewberry well, so I may be wrong here. But 'Kívánok! is a lower class abbreviation of the actual greetings that simply omits the part of the day. It is very informal and obsolete but one may hear it in certain communities. There is no good to follow their example. ;)
It has the "good I wish" expression in kivanok. What if it was just Jo ejszakat?
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In the Hungarian expression, the word 'jó' means 'good'. The word 'kivanok' means 'I wish'. (You can also wish a person bad things, both in English and Hungarian.)
"Jó éjszakát" means "good night".
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I am afraid you may have to memorize it. Hungarian phonetics is a bit tricky but highly logical, just as Cymraeg/Welsh or Italian or Spanish. Or Polish—we have special letter combinations like "sz" and "zs" or "ty" (they count single letters!) that you must care with special attention. But Hungarian phonetics are WAAAAY easier than English.
On the other hand, Hungarian language has very different structures and it is more complex so this is absolutely the top of the surface ;)
Hungarian is really hard. I'm only a little fluent in Spanish and I just started French and Czech on this app the other day but I picked Hungarian because 23andMe said my twin brother and I are more Eastern European than we thought. Should I maybe try a different language before I get deeper into Hungarian?
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I started learning Czech and Hungarian at the same time. Czech is my first Slavic language, and even though it is Indo-European, it is harder for me than the Hungarian.
I find the Hungarian words easier to remember, and I find it easier (as a speaker of American English) to reproduce the sounds of Hungarian than those of Czech.
Moreover the fact that Czech has genders (four if you count masculine animate and inanimate separately), and that both adjectives and nouns must be declined for case, but do not follow the same patterns, adds to the complexity of Czech.
I suggest you stick with Hungarian. Once you get used to the Hungarian spelling conventions, it is easy to read, and to write what you hear.
3-10-2010..Yes,the language is difficult to learn, but easy to remember. It is not derived from the Latin,like other languages. Finnish is about the closest...Best way to pick it up is to try to find someone who is fluent and converse daily..i.e.phone,person..etc.Listen to Hungarian music...you may use a CD and dance a 2 step30min. program ..try singing with it... keep learning light....dont get frustrated...have fun with it...Sisi(Austrian/Hungarian Empress and Queen,was fluent with the language...Emporer husbandFranzJoseph..could not handle.. Hang in there and keep going.Pacsika naney.......
Also guys, don't stress out about the word! Unless you want to move to hungry for the rest of your life and have to write it everyday, make it your goal to only speak it, not write it! Plenty of people can live in hungry or visit it with just speaking it. The words in Hungarian LOOK hard, but honestly, this sentence flows through the brain so easily.that remembering is a snap!
If I don't know Hungarian, how am I supposed to translate these words/phrases? The method seems backwards.
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By learning? ;) If you don't know a language, the best way to understand it is by learning it.
But let's take a more serious approach: what causes you a problem? None of the DL courses work without dictionaries and the leads in every section has the necessary information (as the staff supposed). If you find something missing or misleading, the best thing you can do is reporting that, because this way you help the staff make the course more friendly, more informative and more useable. And you can ask specific questions any time, and both the course developers and some of us volunteer "outsiders" are happy to help you, but you should be specific and precise.
Oh and you can (should) read the previous comments, because some questions are often recurring. Even more, they are sometimes already have detailed explanations, side notes and helpful pieces of mind in those posts that deal with these recurring questions. Yet face the truth: language studies cannot miss the constant and sometimes painful work of finding sources, using dictionaries and hit-and-miss trials.
The benefit is also there: a famous Hungarian polyglot Kató Lomb said (afaik) that Knowing a language is the only thing that is useful even if you know it wrong. So don't dismay! ;) :)
As a first generation Hungarian daughter of parents born in 1881 in Shopron and Szeged and came to the US in 1912, and I the last child born 1933,I grew up hearing the Hungarian language spoken and could understand...but since I was a child and was selfconscious,I balked at trying to use it . My church had Harvest festivals every Sept.and when I was 11,I was asked to dance in the Hungarian Harvest Festival....Our mothers made costumes forthe girls and the fathers got the boys outfitted.We learned words in Hungarian to sing prior t o performing the dance....waltzes,csardas and marching in and out to the Rakocy March...One of the songs was Jo este ,Kivonok....and Seretek egymash geretek...(Love one another ,,cause every minute counts.) Excuse the spelling as I am writing phoenetically.... Now,I am kickin g myself asI remember a lot,but visiting Hungary three times since retirement, find it hard to carry on conversations fluently,and get frustrated. Like Duolingo states,repetion is very necessary and I find a Hungarian dictionary for new words that are hard for me...Also..get some CDs of Hungarian music ..i.e.Cszk.egy kis lany...( I think this shouldbe their national anthem.) If you go...take a Danube cruise at nite...you will fall in love with Hungary...I am going back for my 85th BD next year. Szia! Isten Vella! Paczika neny
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<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 Addig is jó egészséget kívánok, Paczika néni, Isten tartson meg szeretetben és erőben! ;)
(Meanwhile I wish you good health, Paczika neny, may the God keep you in love and strength!)
Thank you very much! I would say that Jo estate kivanok would be the polite form,used in a formal situation..or introducing a program... In family or familiar settings,just Jo estate...sometimes,just a nod or tip of the cap and estate suffices. .Thank you again for your kind words...I really appreciate you taking time to wish me well.
'Goodnight' is just one word in English. It would be very unusual to write 'good night' in normal usage. I get very irritated with this kind of thing in Duolingo. I hate being told my use of my mother tongue is wrong by someone who thinks they know better! Grrrr!!!!
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I feel your pain, but English is not that simple as it is spoken in several different areas with local or more wide-spread variations. "Good night" is two words in most areas I met with it written, and some areas use it in its one-word form. If you say DL should accept it written in one word, I agree (and I think you can help DL by reporting it) but I think the two words is not wrong at all. There are other matters risen from different local forms. On Italian course there is an extra-long debate about people who are waiting by standing behind the previous one—some folks say they stand a line, others say stand in a line, and some of them even say they queue or stand a queue that makes other others cry or going to play pool. Don't let such differences irritate you, there are people out there and people tends to do strange things, and have their own reasons for them ;)
