"The train is rarely here."

Translation:Ritkán van itt a vonat.

June 30, 2016

21 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mdelic99

"A vonat ritkan van itt" is also acceptable


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tamas51

It is also correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Darthdanieldoom

What's the rule for sentence structure? And how does emphasis work? "Ritkán itt van a vonat" was marked wrong for me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregWood15

It has accepted that from me. I think that normally, as Judit mentioned elsewhere on this page, that these adverbs go better with the verb, with "mindig" (and any other all encompassing adverbs) being the exception. MrtonPolgr wrote something about this on another translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emmax123

Ritkan itt van a vonat was marked correct for me! I don't know when you posted yr comment though, maybe it's now been amended as correct !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/annierose5000

I too cannot understand the word order. The small amount of lesson says it is not strict, but that is all the guidance. "Because it's wrong" just doesn't help.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElZordo

"Van itt" is a fixed structure? Or it could be said "itt van"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LobsangC

Yes, many, considering themselves wise, counsel: "Because it is wrong; however, this is neither wisdom nor is it any counsel at all!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertoGro7

I hope some of the usual native contributors will answer some of the questions above, for I'm sure others like me are also wondering about those.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aodhlmao

Sometimes it's hard to explain the rules of a language you grew up with, and didn't study academically. Often times people ask me why English is the way it is, and it's hard not to answer with "because it just is"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/l4gu5

What about "Rítkan a vonat itt van"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Judit294350

Ritkan is an adverb so has to go next the verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IvanEb

"Ritkán van itt a vonat." No?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LobsangC

Well, I put: 'Ritkán itt van a vonat.' -and it was accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Julie900845

I did the same, and it was marked as correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rumdaddy

is "a vonat ritkán itt van" correct?


[deactivated user]

    Grammatically, yes. However, ritkán gets too little emphasis here, so it sounds unnatural. I would use 'néha' - sometimes here, means the same but less time-oriented, so more neutral.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertoGro7

    I am thinking it has to do with the part of the speech being modified by "ritkán": since it is an adverb, maybe the verb needs to come immediately after, but this is just my own conjecture of course.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Liggliluff

    I'm a bit confused of why it is "délben mindig itt van a vonat", but "ritkán van itt a vonat". While "ritkán itt van a vonat" is still accepted, it's not the default. I'm curious why the default forms are different.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/monteirorogerio

    "Ritkán itt van a vonat" following the same logic of "Délben mindig itt van a vonat." Right?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregWood15

    I see that I claimed to have had "Ritkán itt van a vonat" accepted a couple of months ago. Maybe I was mistaken or maybe the maintainers had second thoughts.

    Anyway, I have just had a discussion with vvsey, elsewhere, about the "location van" construct. Normally, placing something in front of a verb gives it focus, but in the case of location and "van" (and "vagok", "volt", et cetera), this is something special, related to the need to include "van" for location while we omit it for adjectives. In these cases, the location should immediately precede "van", as you have done, unless there is an adverb. An adverb, when used, will usually attract focus. When there is an adverb (or something being focused), then the location is pushed to just after the "van", in much the same way as a preverb is pushed after a verb. So we need "Ritkán van itt".

    Also, words in the "mindig" family are special in a different way. I had a discussion about this with MortnPolgr somewhere. I can't remember the details, but the upshot was something like that words like "mindig" never qualify the verbs but what the verbs relate to. So, in the case you've quoted, "mindig" is bound to "itt".

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