Although I can't challenge the reasoning of complexity I can add that we use this a lot, often with curse words for destinations ;)
I'll spare you and skip the nasty examples in my dirty mind.
Menj haza! = Go home! (you, informal)
And based on what i understood from people here, also last appearance unfortunately. I hope this is wrong.
Uralic languages include Finno-Ugric languages, as well as Samoyed languages. Finno-Ugric is more specific and relevant to Finnish and Hungarian than Uralic. It's fine.
I was also very interested in this, because we, whose mother tongue is either Finnish or Hungarian, are unable to decide. But, my good luck let me hear the opinion of an Italian professor who graduated from the Finno-Ugrian department of the Florence University, spoke both Hungarian and Finnish fluently, he lived two years in Hungary and now has a Finnish wife in Helsinki. His verdict is very interesting, because he learnt these languages both as a linguist and an everyday user - and he said that L I S T E N UP P E O P L E Finnish is a lot more difficult!
This is obviously a contentious issue, but I can offer my experience as a linguist having studied both languages. I am not the end-all authority on this, but I think I have a pretty good idea of this considering that I have spent a fair amount of time with both languages, and can do as best as I can to give the objective linguistics perspective.
I would say that Hungarian is more difficult. In terms of grammar, they are equally "weird" to people who have not studied similar languages. Their grammar is certainly not identical, but for simplification purposes I think it's fair to say they do most things in the same way. Finnish verb conjugations are more regular, and the orthography and phonology is more simple than Hungarian (this is just a matter of fact -- Hungarian has both more vowels and more consonants).
I studied Hungarian for multiple years and still had people tell me I make mistakes with the word order of my sentences. Not to be too conceited, but this is pretty surprising for me, because I have had success with learning many different non-European languages (including Japanese, Korean, Chinese, and Arabic), and never had this problem. When I was learning Finnish I never seemed to have this problem. To me, this says that Finnish word order is more regular and intuitive than Hungarian, which is a huge point.
Although this may just be completely subjective, I found that learning Finnish words was easier because there seem to be less loan words. (For anyone who is interested, I just looked it up, and only ~30% of Finnish words are borrowed from other languages, whereas ~45% of words in Hungarian are borrowed from other languages). Some people might (justifiably) argue that this makes Hungarian easier for them to learn, but I found that the higher degree of "consistency" with native words seemed helpful for me in Finnish. Again, that might be completely a psychological illusion.
It is certainly true that there are some transformations that happen to Finnish words (consonant gradation) whereas no such thing happens in Hungarian, and also that negation is generally much more straightforward in Hungarian (usually just add "nem") than Finnish (usually you have to conjugate a "negative verb"), but aside from these points it seems like Finnish is either equal to Hungarian in every way, or more simple. Thus my conclusion that Finnish is easier.
There is another difficulty in Finish that spoken language is quite different from literary language and it can be hard to understand native speaker. But the same happens in many languages more or less.
Finnish pronunciation is definitely easier. And Finnish grammar is famously hard but it's very regular. I don't know much of Hungarian yet, but from little bits I've seen, it is at least quite a bit weirder than Finnish grammar and has some really interesting distinctions in things. Don't know if that makes it hard or not.
well I speak Finnish fluently so I don't really know how hard it is to learn, but probably Hungarian is easier
I don't think they are really different from that aspect. And actually all languages are very to difficult to learn at the level of professional fluency. Finnish and Hungarian are both considered to be extremely difficult to learn even at a lower intermediate level.
The moment I realized this was when a native German told me he struggled with grammar. I was taken aback because I had the notion, always, that English is the red headed step child of the linguistic world... That for most other people it is a breeze with lack of rules, and as such gets very little respect.
I think we all should be lucky we don't have to relearn our native toungues from scratch.
Good point. Luckily my native tongue is Hungarian. :) I'm struggling with German as I moved to the country two years ago.
How did you find English to be? Did any of the spelling or pronunciation trip you up?
Finally knowing Finnish pays off! :D But this is like the first word where it has helped. :(
Oh, there will be probably a few dozens more... ;-) a few hundred if you are a linguist
There's not a difference between a long or consonant, or so I'm under the impression. Both are formally referred to as geminated consonants.
Yes, you have right, I meant long. I told that I am not an IPA expert :) I corrected it in my post.
Thanks, but I was hoping someone could indicate the IPA. Unfortunately, Forvo doesn't look to provide that information...
I am not an IPA expert but I try it: 'mɛɲ: . As the ñ in Spanish in "la manaña" but with longer pronunciation. The n and j letters together merge with to a long "ñ". As in the "canyon" in English but with a longer "ny".
Much obliged! /ɲ/ is a consonant that I'm familiar with as it is in my mother tongue and it used fairly often, but the palatal sounds don't seem to match up in pronunciation between Hungarian and my mother tongue at all if I go by the sound clips...
Yes, it is, but in case of "menj" keep it long, because if it is pronounced short, it is a different word meaning 'daughter-in-law' (spelt as "meny").
I do have difficulties to hear the difference between "menni" and "menj". (It seems, that I often miss (minor) differences in pronounciation). Any hint that could help me get it right?
Thank you, it seems, that the "e" in menni is shorter, than in menj. I will see in future tests here, if I now get it right.
No, it is not. Actually it would be an error to pronounce the 'j'.
Instead, 'nj' is pronounced as a long 'nny' or [ɲː] in IPA code. A close example is the Italian word 'bagno' (= bath) [ˈbäɲːo].
I live in Hungary, I speak hungarian and English as well, the translation is " Lets go" can be also right. But I got as wrong...strange