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  5. "Oda akarok menni."

"Oda akarok menni."

Translation:I want to go there.

July 1, 2016

34 Comments


[deactivated user]

    What's the difference between kérek and akarok?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tonia.jam

    kérni: to ask for something. when you want to GET something ("kérni" + noun in accusative case) akarni: to want to DO something ("akarni" + infinitive)

    update: well, sometimes we also use "akarni" with a noun in accusative, but it expresses a very-very strong wish. it's not a request, but a claim, or demand. so when you ask for something from somebody, it's better not to use it. :) e.g. i spot a dress in a shop, love at first sight, i know that i have to have it, so i just stop, point out the dress and i say to my bestie: "akarom ezt a ruhát." and then i buy it (if it really fits me). :D


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cupofcrawfee

    kérek is more like "I wish" akarok is "I want" hence kérek is somewhat more polite


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fmk64

    Right. And in this context one cannot say "Oda kérek menni" - please forget this at once. If you want to be nice and polite you might wanna say "Oda szeretnék menni." But the determinedness radiating from the audio suggests that it would be more like "I want to go there".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/norveeg

    a more polite version of "I want/akar" is "I would like/szeretnék"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Metatron36

    kérni = to ask for something.
    akarni = to want something


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sevy694

    Assuming that "there" is Hungary, yes I do.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/P8W7k

    "Oda akarok menni" - Citrom Erzsébet


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ploomich

    In previous phrases everyone said akarok was impolite to the point where only a little child would say it, but here it is the only option accepted. Is it because here there's a will to do something (a verb - akarok menni) VS a will of having something (a noun - kerek vizet)?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HeruMornie

    Yes, your example is quite good. But please pay attention to the accents, even if you use an English keyboard: "kerek" means "round", "kérek" means "I ask (sg)", "kerék" means "wheel" and "kérék" is an extinct past tense of "kér" (ask) that only linguists know how to use :D If we must use English keyboard we put apostrophe after e to achieve é, or colon after o or u to write ö or ü if the context is not clear enough. Iphones and tablets has a bad effect on this, so in most cases Hungarians will understand your words that missing accents, but quite often it can lead to strange / humorous / painful misunderstandings.

    Small children learn the "akarok" first, and parents have to teach them to use polite terms. But in general, "akarok" means will, or demand. "I demand water" is more or less "Vizet akarok" (we have even more suitable word for it but I don't want to mix up things) and it lacks any polite attitude. - I want to go to the Opera, can you help me? - "Az Operához akarok menni, tud segíteni?" is quite polite as it shows your goal, but the request is polite. - I would like to go to the Opera, can you help me? - "Az Operához szerenék menni, tud segíteni?" is an even more polite approach that you would use to address elderly or more honoured people but the actual difference is small.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Metatron36

    Exactly. So you can say "I want to do this" but you shouldn't say in the shop "I want this and that"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HeruMornie

    Ineed! While the latter is grammatically correct, it is politically incorrect :D


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

    Kér literally means 'to ask for [something]', so you can only apply it to situations where you want to have an object. If you want to do something instead, you use akar. Still not the most polite thing to say, though.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qunar7

    Why put "akarok" in the middle?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

    Akarok is the centrepiece in this sentence, so the more appropriate question would be "Why are the other words distributed like that?"

    The conjugated verb, akarok in this case, is the main part of the sentence. Right in front of that is the focus position: the new piece of information you want to convey. Here, the speaker wants to emphasise where they want to go. "I want to go there." The second verb, menni isn't very important, so it goes in the back.

    This would be the most natural word order, but you can also come up with some different sentences, depending on what you want to convey:

    • Oda menni akarok. - Here oda is the topic, so the sentence is about "what's happening at that place". Menni is in the focus, so you want to focus on the movement to that place. "I wanna go there."

    • Menni akarok oda. - Basically the same as before, but now the place isn't topical anymore.

    • Akarok menni oda. - Now the verb itself is in the focus, so you're expressing your desire, or maybe your frustration. "But I want to."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qunar7

    Thank you for the info.! Generally speaking, the first word is a sentence is the topic and anything before the conjugated verb is the focus? Thanks again.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

    Not quite exact, but you're getting there. :)

    Hungarian sentences are usually built in this pattern:

    • topic - focus - verb (stem) - rest

    The item immediately in front of the verb stem is the focus, and anything in front of that is a topic. That means, if there's only one item in front of the verb (like in the above sentence), the sentence doesn't have a topic. And if the verb stem is the first item, the verb itself is in the focus.

    I hope that's not too technical, but I think it helps learning this structure. You can find more about that topic (ha!) in the comments when you get to more complex sentences.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qunar7

    I'll remember that. Köszönöm szépen!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zinthak

    So...if the basic word for ''I'' in Hungarian is ''én'', then where is ''I'' in this sentence?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

    It's in the '-ok' in akarok. Since the Hungarian verbs have a distinct conjugation form for every grammatical person, you can leave the actual pronoun out. In fact, it's mostly only included if you want to put a stress on the pronoun, for instance, that it is me who wants to go, not anyone else.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zinthak

    Ah yes thank you. I also found a wikipedia page on Hungarian verb conjugations. You also use '-ek' it seems, I'm curious as to why instead of just using 1 of these endings to conjugation the pronoun, you use 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_verbs#-ik_verbs


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

    You should read the lesson introduction, maybe. :D
    One of the basic principles of the Hungarian language is the vowel harmony. The fourteen vowels of Hungarian are split into two main groups, back vowels a, á, o, ó, u, ú and front vowels e, é, ö, ő, ü, ű, i, í. Various sub-groups exist, depending on what your grammatical needs are. Now, if you have a back vowel verb, like akar, you use back vowel suffixes. For the indefinite (standard) conjugation of the infinitve and the six persons, it looks like this:
    akarni, akarok, akarsz, akar, akarunk, akartok, akarnak.

    Take a front vowel verb, like kér - to ask for, and it looks like this:
    kérni, kérek, kérsz, kér, kérünk, kértek, kérnek.

    And with an umlaut verb, tör - to break, you end up with:
    törni, török, törsz, tör, törünk, törtök, törnek. (Notice how some suffixes have only one variant, and some other two or three.)

    Vowel harmony goes through the entire grammar here, so you'll need to get used to it.

    Now, -ik verbs are a little bit in a special metier. Instead of the 3rd person singular having no suffix (at it is the norm), they have the suffix -ik. Those are usually rather old verbs, and I can only say that they tend to have a bit weirder forms. For some of those verbs, like eszik - to eat, even Hungarians don't really agree which is the better form for "I eat" - eszem or eszek. Both are accepted but usually using one of those forms make you appear uneducated. (Which is totally fine for a learner.)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xinode

    My grandfather who speaks, Hungarian and German, said to me to not both with it. I can now see why, this is like totally different to english and my best attempt at a second language (esperanto). This also sounds like the dothraki language from GOT


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

    I don't know a language as useless as English, when it comes to learning a new language by grammatical similarities, so.. if this is the way you measure languages, I would rather give up, unironically.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ishana92

    what is the difference between oda and ott


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

    Ott - there, the place.
    Oda - to there, making a movement where you end up at ott.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Liggliluff

    ott = there, oda = thither, right?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

    Yes, if you want to juggle with the old words. :)
    Have a few more:

    • onnan, ott, oda - thence, there, thither
    • innen, itt, ide - hence, here, hither
    • honnan, hol, hova - whence, where, whither

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kocsola

    What is the difference between " there I want to go" and "I want to go there" ?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

    In English? Not a lot, but the second one is much more natural.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NeverwinterRaven

    I tried to answer with "There I want to go" but it said it was incorrect. I don't feel like it is, sure, it isn't how you would say it in English, but it's a direct translation of what the sentence is in Hungarian and since this is for English speakers learning Hungarian, not Hungarian speakers learning English, I feel like the direct translation is more helpful for English speakers to learn which word is what.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andrew359786

    I think it's fair enough for that answer to be marked incorrect.

    You're right, it can be useful as an English speaker to think through a literal translation like yours (though probably it should start with "to there" or even "thence"), but the job of translation is not yet finished. You still have to put it into an acceptable formulation of the destination language.

    You've already done that to some extent - you have to, since there is no single English word to match "akarok". In Hungarian the pronoun is rolled into the word itself but English forces you to separate it into two words, the pronoun and the verb. The same goes for "menni". Conceptually there's little difference between making these changes and taking the final step of fixing the word order to the one that English demands.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NeverwinterRaven

    I see what you mean. You're right. Though for menni, it's the definitive, so it is "to go." If it had the pronoun in it, it would be megyek. I guess it doesn't matter as much for me anyway, since I'm not trying to learn Hungarian. I lived in Hungary for a year and a half so I already am quite familiar with the language, I'm just trying to use this program so that I don't forget it.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

    There are two things.

    If you say correct English should be taken much less seriously - not by the authors but by learner community - I will approve. I see no point in people discussing whether something is grammatical or common in English, in any course that's not meant to teach English. There are native speakers like that for any language, here on Duolingo, natives of English happen to be overrepresented with their regionalisms and prescriptivist grammar ideas about their own language.

    There is something that works against accepting incorrect-sounding translations, though. Treating translation as word by word transcription is untenable. If you want to learn words, there are flashcard apps for that, including Tinycards by Duolingo. Duolingo is meant to check whether you understand the sentence, the base language is just a tool to show it - word by word translations show that you understand words, at best. This may be enough for you, as you say you don't actually want to learn the language, still, we mustn't make people think this is what language learning is about.

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