- És - Lists (X, Y és Z)
- Meg - The same as "És". Also means "Plus". (Te meg én; Egy meg kettő három)
- Pedig - "And" in the sense of "However"; "Whereas" (Én görög vagyok, te pedig albán vagy - "I am Greek and/whereas/however you are Albanian).
Any other Hungarian speakers - feel free to add onto this.
haha, i'm afraid it's not enough to be a native hu speaker to explain it. maybe a hu teacher would be able to do it. :D especially that many times they are used... let's say not totally correct in the everyday spoken language. "és", "meg" and "pedig" are conjunctions, often used in the same or similar meaning, and also often used together (sometimes it's a mistake, sometimes it's only a kind of repetition). "és" and "meg" express connection "pedig" expresses (should express) contrast
but i'm not a hu teacher, only a native speaker, so... :D
Well, this is a classic "lost in translation" situation. You have to look at it from the source, the "richer" side. In this case it is the Hungarian. (In the other direction, the English "he/she" is the obvious example. The gender gets lost when translating into the gender-neutral Hungarian "ő".)
It is not "and" in Hungarian, and it is not meant to be "and" in the translation. But when you don't have the matching word/phrase/structure/usage on the other side, you go for the closest acceptable solution.
The simple Hungarian "and", "és", translates directly to the English "and". There is no problem there that I can see.
But several, totally different, words also end up as "and" in the translation. There may be a more accurate translation but sometimes it is just too much trouble, why bother, etc. "And" is close enough. These are the ones we have seen here so far:
"Meg" (in the role of "and") - this is simple, very much just a synonym of "és". Perhaps a less sophisticated cousin of it. Incidentally, it also means "plus". And sometimes we can also use "plus" in English, in place of "and". Right?
"Pedig" / "meg" ("meg" is also a synonym of this usage - but here it definitely does NOT mean "plus") - many times it ends up being translated into a simple "and". It connects opposing or different statements. "Én lány vagyok, te pedig/meg fiú vagy" - can be translated into "I am a girl and you are a boy", without losing too much. But a more accurate translation would be "(and) .. on the other hand". I am a boy, (and) you, on the other hand, are a girl.
A similar situation is when the "pedig" clause just negates the first statement for the other subject, without offering an alternative: "Én lány vagyok, te pedig nem." In English: "I am a girl and you are not".
"Nem pedig" - this introduces a negated statement that contradicts the previous statement. It easily translates to "and not". "Te fiú vagy, nem pedig férfi". "You are a boy and not a man". Here, we can NOT replace "pedig" with "meg". But even in Hungarian, "nem pedig" can be replaced with "és nem" ("and not"). "Te fiú vagy, és nem férfi."
"Hanem" - this one does NOT translate to "and" but let me list it here because it is interesting how a "nem pedig" sentence can be transformed into a "hanem" sentence. "Hanem" means "but rather" or "but instead".
(Statement 1) is true AND NOT (Statement 2)
I am a girl AND NOT a boy. - Lány vagyok, NEM PEDIG fiú.
Transformed into a "hanem" sentence:
(Statement 2) is not true BUT INSTEAD (Statement 1) is true.
I am not a boy, BUT INSTEAD (I am) a girl. - Nem lány vagyok, HANEM fiú (vagyok).
And there is one more that I can think of right now. It is: "viszont". I don't think it regularly translates to "and", but it is possible.
"Viszont" - I think this is stronger alternative for "pedig" (Not to be used in "nem pedig"). Here we want to emphasize the differences, not just state them. Many times there is a difference of quality between the two statements. So it means something like "on the contrary" or "in contrast". Compare these two sentences:
Én lány vagyok, te pedig fiú vagy. - I am a girl, and you are a boy. Or: I am a girl (and) you, on the other hand, are a boy.
Én lány vagyok, te viszont (igazi) nő vagy! - I am a girl but you, you are a (real) woman! Expressing a difference in "quality".
It goes both ways, from lesser to more or vice versa:
Én férfi vagyok, te viszont (csak) egy fiú vagy. - I am a man, but/and you are only a boy.
The Turkish influence is very strong in some aspects of Hungarian and not only from the XVI and XVII centuries... We have many borrowed words, too and if you translate "Cebimde birçok küçük elma var" to Hungarian, it will sound surprisingly similar ;) (Even if you will wonder what the heck is this sentence... ;) :D )
Wow! I had no idea about the Turkish influence on Hungarian. Although when I started this course three days back, the 'alma' did make me wonder if it and 'elma' were cognates, but beyond that, I didn't think much. It would certainly have intrigued me had I also paid attention to the sheer similarity between 'van' and 'var'. So thanks a lot for the info. Şimdi bu konuda araştırma yapmalıyım! :)
Here is an incomplete but impressive list of Hungarian words that are origin from Turk/Turkish or influenced by those languages. ;) Have a good research ;)
It's probably the fact that there is only one third person pronoun, but at first, I understood this sentence as "she is a girl and she is (also) a boy" as if it referred to a transgender person... Could it be understood this way? Of course it would probably require more context, but in terms of grammar?
Definitely no, it is clearly about two separate persons. The distinction comes from "pedig" that shows that the second mention refers to another person.
"Pedig" may mean "on the contrary" if it is located before the pronoun, therefore „ő lány, pedig ő fiú" may refer gender-bending or a guy in disguise. ;) (See bbigblue's comment above.)
„Meg" has the same separating effect in Ő lány, ő meg fiú ("She's a girl and he's a boy") but °Ő lány, meg ő fiú is completely wrong as „meg" hasn't got this meaning to create opposition.
As a posible answer is given "She is a girl, she is a boy". Besides the fact that the conjunction you try to explain is missing, it is pragmatically impossible ('she' refering to a feminin object and 'boy' being a masculin object). Above this discussion, that translation is absent, so I guess it will already be fine.
If "pedig" would be before the "ő" then that would modify the meaning of the sentence. Listing vs modifying/contradicting the previous statement. Maybe an example helps:
"She looks like a girl, on the other hand he is a boy." - "Ő lánynak néz ki, ő pedig egy fiú."
"He looks like a girl, but he is actually a boy." - "Ő lánynak néz ki, pedig ő egy fiú."
You're right, CoxySmith, that's the real meaning.
It is difficult sometimes that Hungarian language use more distinctions and differences than English can express. We Hungarians have trouble with this, too, when we learn English. In the other way, it may be almost crazy, but when you grab the line of logic of our language, it will be almost self-explanatory and absolutely handy.