"Ő lány, ő pedig fiú."

Translation:She is a girl, and he is a boy.

July 1, 2016

53 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Neco_Coneco

Should 'on the other hand' be accepted too for pedig?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vvsey

Yes, absolutely.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NeverwinterRaven

It still hasn't been changed to accept "on the other hand," in case you didn't know.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GXLD.

Can anybody explain all the ways of saying "and" in Hungarian?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/linguafiqari
  • És - Lists (X, Y és Z)
  • Meg - The same as "És". Also means "Plus". (Te meg én; Egy meg kettő három)
  • Pedig - "And" in the sense of "However"; "Whereas" (Én görög vagyok, te pedig albán vagy - "I am Greek and/whereas/however you are Albanian).

Any other Hungarian speakers - feel free to add onto this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tonia.jam

haha, i'm afraid it's not enough to be a native hu speaker to explain it. maybe a hu teacher would be able to do it. :D especially that many times they are used... let's say not totally correct in the everyday spoken language. "és", "meg" and "pedig" are conjunctions, often used in the same or similar meaning, and also often used together (sometimes it's a mistake, sometimes it's only a kind of repetition). "és" and "meg" express connection "pedig" expresses (should express) contrast

but i'm not a hu teacher, only a native speaker, so... :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vvsey

Well, this is a classic "lost in translation" situation. You have to look at it from the source, the "richer" side. In this case it is the Hungarian. (In the other direction, the English "he/she" is the obvious example. The gender gets lost when translating into the gender-neutral Hungarian "ő".)

It is not "and" in Hungarian, and it is not meant to be "and" in the translation. But when you don't have the matching word/phrase/structure/usage on the other side, you go for the closest acceptable solution.

The simple Hungarian "and", "és", translates directly to the English "and". There is no problem there that I can see.

But several, totally different, words also end up as "and" in the translation. There may be a more accurate translation but sometimes it is just too much trouble, why bother, etc. "And" is close enough. These are the ones we have seen here so far:

"Meg" (in the role of "and") - this is simple, very much just a synonym of "és". Perhaps a less sophisticated cousin of it. Incidentally, it also means "plus". And sometimes we can also use "plus" in English, in place of "and". Right?

"Pedig" / "meg" ("meg" is also a synonym of this usage - but here it definitely does NOT mean "plus") - many times it ends up being translated into a simple "and". It connects opposing or different statements. "Én lány vagyok, te pedig/meg fiú vagy" - can be translated into "I am a girl and you are a boy", without losing too much. But a more accurate translation would be "(and) .. on the other hand". I am a boy, (and) you, on the other hand, are a girl.

A similar situation is when the "pedig" clause just negates the first statement for the other subject, without offering an alternative: "Én lány vagyok, te pedig nem." In English: "I am a girl and you are not".

"Nem pedig" - this introduces a negated statement that contradicts the previous statement. It easily translates to "and not". "Te fiú vagy, nem pedig férfi". "You are a boy and not a man". Here, we can NOT replace "pedig" with "meg". But even in Hungarian, "nem pedig" can be replaced with "és nem" ("and not"). "Te fiú vagy, és nem férfi."

"Hanem" - this one does NOT translate to "and" but let me list it here because it is interesting how a "nem pedig" sentence can be transformed into a "hanem" sentence. "Hanem" means "but rather" or "but instead".

Logically:

(Statement 1) is true AND NOT (Statement 2)

I am a girl AND NOT a boy. - Lány vagyok, NEM PEDIG fiú.

Transformed into a "hanem" sentence:

(Statement 2) is not true BUT INSTEAD (Statement 1) is true.

I am not a boy, BUT INSTEAD (I am) a girl. - Nem lány vagyok, HANEM fiú (vagyok).

And there is one more that I can think of right now. It is: "viszont". I don't think it regularly translates to "and", but it is possible.

"Viszont" - I think this is stronger alternative for "pedig" (Not to be used in "nem pedig"). Here we want to emphasize the differences, not just state them. Many times there is a difference of quality between the two statements. So it means something like "on the contrary" or "in contrast". Compare these two sentences:

Én lány vagyok, te pedig fiú vagy. - I am a girl, and you are a boy. Or: I am a girl (and) you, on the other hand, are a boy.

Én lány vagyok, te viszont (igazi) nő vagy! - I am a girl but you, you are a (real) woman! Expressing a difference in "quality".

It goes both ways, from lesser to more or vice versa:

Én férfi vagyok, te viszont (csak) egy fiú vagy. - I am a man, but/and you are only a boy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Julie900845

Thanks for the generous text, just I have noticed small mistake in writing when you wrote "I am not a boy, BUT INSTEAD (I am) a girl. - Nem lány vagyok, HANEM fiú (vagyok)........ it should be "nem fiú vagyok, hanem lány (vagyok).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zesul

Thanks a lot for the clear and comprehensible explanation! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SylarHao

Just when you think Hungarian couldn't be any harder... You find this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HeruMornie

Oh, this is the easy part!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SabsFeigler

Don't forget about "bezeg" and "bizony" which mean certainly and can also be used in some of these situations, usually with much added drama.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HeruMornie

Oh, that "bezzeg" (with double "z") and "bizony" are too much drama for the beginners... You're meddle with the fabric of reality here! ;) Bezzeg ha már haladó vagy, bizony ismerned kell majd ezeket is! ;) :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/svalbart

yet i used "however" instead of "and" here and got it wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HeruMornie

Did you report it? It would probably help the developer team.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kohlbeci

's' is also used instead of 'és' in some cases (archaic language, poetry, some dialects ...)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OzForce

Ő lány, ő pedig fiú. Can I make it any more obvious?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/findsilas

How do you type ő ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Liggliluff

With a Hungarian keyboard layout. You can enable that on most devices regardless of what physical keyboard you got.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DarcX

This word order _


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JackyDW

You should be able to get through it. Especially if you're at level 8 in Turkish, which shares many word order characteristics with Hungarian despite their different language families.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HeruMornie

The Turkish influence is very strong in some aspects of Hungarian and not only from the XVI and XVII centuries... We have many borrowed words, too and if you translate "Cebimde birçok küçük elma var" to Hungarian, it will sound surprisingly similar ;) (Even if you will wonder what the heck is this sentence... ;) :D )


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zesul

Wow! I had no idea about the Turkish influence on Hungarian. Although when I started this course three days back, the 'alma' did make me wonder if it and 'elma' were cognates, but beyond that, I didn't think much. It would certainly have intrigued me had I also paid attention to the sheer similarity between 'van' and 'var'. So thanks a lot for the info. Şimdi bu konuda araştırma yapmalıyım! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HeruMornie

Here is an incomplete but impressive list of Hungarian words that are origin from Turk/Turkish or influenced by those languages. ;) Have a good research ;)

https://wiki.startlap.hu/melyek-a-torok-eredetu-magyar-szavak/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobinDonva

As a posible answer is given "She is a girl, she is a boy". Besides the fact that the conjunction you try to explain is missing, it is pragmatically impossible ('she' refering to a feminin object and 'boy' being a masculin object). Above this discussion, that translation is absent, so I guess it will already be fine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MNParnasso

Yes RobinDonva, I wondered and flagged, in case it's just a dl-hungarian glitch or a querk of Hungarian itself, which appeared also to accept the mistakenly inverted ambiguously similar subjects "he is a girl and she is a boy"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MNParnasso

Yes RobinDonva, I wondered and flagged, in case it's just a dl-hungarian glitch or a querk of Hungarian itself, which appeared also to accept the mistakenly inverted ambiguously similar subjects "he is a girl and she is a boy"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AngeloGiac7

Does " ő lány, pedig ő fiú. " make sense and the 'pedig' is placed after 'ő' purely for emphasis or is it a grammatical rule?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bbigblue

Your version means something else: "She is a girl, even though he is a boy".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErinAndW

Why is pedig after ő?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bbigblue

If "pedig" would be before the "ő" then that would modify the meaning of the sentence. Listing vs modifying/contradicting the previous statement. Maybe an example helps:
"She looks like a girl, on the other hand he is a boy." - "Ő lánynak néz ki, ő pedig egy fiú."
"He looks like a girl, but he is actually a boy." - "Ő lánynak néz ki, pedig ő egy fiú."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HeruMornie

Én ;) (I am native Hungarian)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MatthewScowen

I think meg is also used like; It gives the verb a sort of "finishedness" nézem a filmet - I'm watching / I watch the film Megnézem / more likely megnéztem a filmet - I will watch or I have watched it ALL OF IT - have finished it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kalucar8

It is pretty hard for Serbs and probably other Slavs to take care of articles in both Hungarian and English when we don't have. I feel this is gonna be a hell of a trip.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ru_ro

On a side note, I really wish Diolingo to add Serbian course


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarinaSabo

can I make it anymore obvious


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Revan1466

♪He was a punk, she did ballet♪


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Blisterseer1

Terf Duolingo strikes again


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ashibaal

Why no audio here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janewith7

It's still in beta. Just use the button to report it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kleihm

It's probably the fact that there is only one third person pronoun, but at first, I understood this sentence as "she is a girl and she is (also) a boy" as if it referred to a transgender person... Could it be understood this way? Of course it would probably require more context, but in terms of grammar?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HeruMornie

Definitely no, it is clearly about two separate persons. The distinction comes from "pedig" that shows that the second mention refers to another person.

"Pedig" may mean "on the contrary" if it is located before the pronoun, therefore „ő lány, pedig ő fiú" may refer gender-bending or a guy in disguise. ;) (See bbigblue's comment above.)

„Meg" has the same separating effect in Ő lány, ő meg fiú ("She's a girl and he's a boy") but °Ő lány, meg ő fiú is completely wrong as „meg" hasn't got this meaning to create opposition.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoeCool487756

So ö is "a" regardless of gender ? Also it seems there was another word for "a" if I am remembering correctly. What is the difference?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NeverwinterRaven

ő means he/she, it doesn't mean "a." "Egy" literally means "one" but it can mean "a" in a sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andreyo001

it is not "and" but "on the other hand"/"where-there"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eddiannie

Audio is missing much of the time. 30/06/2020


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RKV008

What is the actual meaning of ő


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bbigblue

Third person singular pronoun. In english that is either he, she or it. In hungarian it is ő.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wuffy01

Pedig can also be while? Not like while Ou wait but. She girl, while he boy

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