"There is rarely snow in the morning."

Translation:Reggel ritkán van hó.

July 1, 2016

32 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Banyesz85

"Ritkán van hó reggel" is good as well! (Free word order)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

Just don't refer to "free word order" because it can give you the wrong impression that word order doesn't matter. It really matters. Eventually, some word orders mean the same, some are nonsensical and some hold different information.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MohammadAb508551

dude are you just throwing random info about Hungarian to people here. Making them more confused.

Just a quick note, even HUNGARIANS argue about the word order. Literally.

Hungarian is like a language puzzle, you have the words spoken to you,and you need to figure out the meaning of the sentence. That's it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bbigblue

it's not random info, since free word order is incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrsBrny
Mod
  • 1107

Accepted now!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gwe1980

Report it. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlsEenPoffertje

Is "Ritkán reggel van hó" correct? Initially I wasn't going to ask this question because I do think "Reggel ritkán van hó" is better. However, after thinking a little I realised there might be a scenario where "ritkán" could be emphasised: There's rarely snow in the morning — from time to time maybe, but certainly rarely.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrsBrny
Mod
  • 1107

Yes, it does work, though you need the special scenario you mention. It should be accepted now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlsEenPoffertje

Thanks for the response! ^_^


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marty97211

When does the "van" come last or not? I was marked wrong for it here, but elsewhere I see "kívül hó van."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/23906912

Syntax doesn't determine word order, semantics does - more or less. Ritkán falls into a special semantic category as it conveys negative information and negative information is about mandatory to make the focus. https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/37684142


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marty97211

Thanks. The first link is very helpful; the second has my mind reeling, but I will try re-reading it a few more times! So, a clarification, based on my example above, I would say:

"Kívül hó van"... BUT "Kívül ritkán van hó" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bbigblue

"Kívül ritkán van hó" - "There is rarely snow outside" - so snow is mostly inside (are we talking about a fridge / freezer? :) )
"Kívül ritkán hó van" - "There is snow outside rarely(occasionally)."
So the place of "van" can go in multiple places, but it will modify the meaning.

With this lesson "Reggel ritkán hó van." is also a valid hungarian sentence but it means "yeah, occasionally we have snow in the morning" vs the original "oh, we are rarely ever getting snow in the morning". Does this make sense ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marty97211

In answer to my question about why it was wrong to put the verb last here, but not in an earlier example, MrtonPolgr explained that it was because "ritkán" was negative (negating the "van"). Since I had seen "Kívül hó van" earlier, I asked if the van should be moved next to the "ritkán" in the latter sentence, based on his explanation (as well as the link he gave that listed such negative words).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

The latter link is more like a cheat sheet for common words that take/refuse a certain position in the sentence almost dogmatically. (I'd add that most words that are said to be "never in focus" are more precisely "always in topic".)

And I don't understand the point you are trying to make. What exactly are we comparing? I only see two concrete, meaningful and perhaps common sentences.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dave81791

Ritkan hó van reggel. What does this word order mean?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DJJG7
  • 1581

I tried that too. I am eager for an answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bbigblue

Basically you are emphasizing snow. It is not a wrong approach though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DJJG7
  • 1581

Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

Just be aware that this is rarely what you want to say.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DJJG7
  • 1581

OK. Köszönöm!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndreMarce14

Why reggel ritkán hó van is not possible?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

It feels very unstructured. I think the most important thing to notice here is ritkán. It's an adverb of frequency, to make it "worse", one with a negative nature (just like "rarely" to be honest). Therefore it almost acts like negation, it would be awkward to present a positive general setup like "hó van" when you want to say it's actually rarely the case. By the way, wouldn't it sound awkward in English as well? "It's actually the case rarely." I feel like it sounds the same kind of contradictory but I'm not a native after all.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Emanuele19081968

about me any answer could be good , because in the hungarian text inwhich I studied several years ago, words in the phrase are not blocked such as german..it depends from intentions of the speaker


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/susan190468

Ugh. Hearing this audio clip compared to my attempts makes it very clear I need to work on rolling my "R's". Any tips?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bbigblue

Hmmmmm. I tried to write up something and failed so I rather googled - https://www.wikihow.com/Roll-Your-%22R%22s maybe this helps ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marina0320

Serbian is my first language and it uses the hard R. Try putting your tonge on the alveoles (area in between your teeth and hard palate https://images.app.goo.gl/jh8fdqiVowCo2nG27 ) and breath out. Then, try to force it to stay there. If this works, you will pronounce R. Good luck!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marina0320

To be more specific, try to put your tounge like you want to say L or N, and then breath out


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdrienFoul1

Isn't "Ho reggel van ritkan" valid?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bbigblue

While it is not gramatically incorrect, it has a different meaning. I would only use it when someone says that "there is rarely snow in the evening" and i would counter it, with "no, it's in the morning when it is rare, it is actually pretty common to have snow in the evening".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rPs27APa

Where is the hungarian key board in this iesson

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